Poker Bay - My Business Plan. Market Research.

[cambridgealex]

My main concern about going public with the details of my business idea was that the idea was so good that someone would steal it.

Unfortunately it's got to the point where I'm worried it's any good at all and am thinking twice about even going forward with it.

So I've created this thread to gain more insight into what as many people as possible think about it. I've spoken to many many people about it already, and have read very carefully everyone's posts on this topic already so I know a fair bit about where Blonde stands on the issue. Many people dislike it. Quite how many I don't know. A few have spoken up, but I'm sure there's lots on the sidelines keeping quiet but also don't like it. Similarly, many people like it, have said so, and I hope there's also many in the sidelines who'll like it too

OK so here goes.

[cambridgealex]

What is Poker Bay?

Poker Bay is an online auction site where you can buy and sell action in poker tournaments.

How did Poker Bay come about?

Credit where credit's due - James Keys came up with the auction concept late 2011 and used it to sell shares in a £1000 tournament.

As an investor myself, I became frustrated when excellent players sold packages that were brilliant value – but sold out before I had the chance to get involved. I concluded that people undervalue themselves, or perhaps more correctly, misunderstood the market in which they’re selling and I thought they could get a much better price if they used James’ auction idea.

I'm creating Poker Bay as a solution to this problem and a global market place for people to buy and sell action in poker tournaments.

[cambridgealex]

How does Poker Bay make money?

Each seller pays a small fee (between 1% and 4% of the size of the package) for each package they sell. Buyers can bid for free. 15% of the mark-up profit is kept by Poker Bay.

How does Poker Bay work?

1.   Seller wants to sell shares in a tournament, an auction begins
2.   Buyers bid for shares.
3.   At the end of the auction the price is finalised and winning bidders pay Poker Bay for their shares.
4.   To protect our buyers from being scammed we’ll hang onto the staking money until the tournament is complete. (Unless you have collected enough reward points to qualify for pre-tournament payment)
5.   Seller plays the tournament.
6.   If eliminated before the money, we send the seller their staking money plus their share of the mark-up profit. If they cash, we wait to confirm how much they cashed for and then we tell them how much they need to send us.
7.   Once sent, we distribute the winnings to the buyers.

[cambridgealex]

Why use Poker Bay?

What we offer sellers
•   A huge market of buyers meaning you’re almost certain to sell out on any package
•   The auction element will drive prices right up – you’ll get a better markup price that you would feel comfortable asking on a forum for, or asking your mates.
•   You get the money all in one go. No more chasing up individual buyers for payment or having to keep checking your bank account to see who has and hasn’t paid.
•   No hassle with sending returns. We deal with the individual buyers so you don’t have to go through the hassle of individually sending returns.

What we offer buyers
•   A huge range of investment opportunities across all stakes.
•   Fairer prices – the market decides what price you buy at, so you can pick and chose whatever you think is the best value and will no longer be priced out by people charging too much.
•   Money back guarantee – if the player goes AWOL and doesn’t play / doesn’t return any winnings, you get your money back. One strike policy for such scammers.
•   A wealth of information about sellers. References, feedback, recommendation system, history checks, sharkscope links and in-bedded Hendon mobs in player profiles etc, meaning you can make an informed decision.
•   A great place to sweat the action once the tournament is underway in the comments section of each auction.

[cambridgealex]

The Downsides

•   Auctions might drive up prices to the point where buyers get no value for money. In the very long term they probably will. In the short term the auctions that have taken place already have shown there's some great value to be had. I won't speculate on what I think has been good value and what hasn't in the past but I know there's been auctions where the final price has been quite significantly below what I would determine as good value. Similarly there's been bad value final prices which works the other way. So I imagine it'll a mixed bag of investment opportunities. Some great deals, some not so great ones. Either way, the market decides these not the players, so there can be no complaints there.
•   There's still no guarantee that players won't bink and run. No way around that, there's always going to be a risk of that when staking. The one thing Poker Bay does offer is a money back guarantee for players who haven't qualified for pre tournament payment.
•   Auctions can be rigged and prices hikes by players getting mates to bid and work up the prices. There will be methods to monitor this sort of behaviour but the best way to avoid exposure to this is of course, to only invest in people you trust.

[tikay]

Normal service has now been resumed.

Apologies for that break in transmission.

[cambridgealex]

Flame away...

[jackinbeat]

Looks like a good idea, although you say the money isn't released until after the game is played, wouldn't this mean those players looking fro stakes because they don't have the funds are excluded, a fair part of your target market there i''d have thought?

[celtic]

Where is herbie?

[EvilPie]

•   Money back guarantee – if the player goes AWOL and doesn’t play / doesn’t return any winnings, you get your money back. One strike policy for such scammers.

•   There's still no guarantee that players won't bink and run. No way around that, there's always going to be a risk of that when staking. The one thing Poker Bay does offer is a money back guarantee for players who haven't qualified for pre tournament payment.

Are you just paying the stake back or covering the lost winnings?

If it's the latter are you insuring yourself against it?

[Laxie]

Looks like a good idea, although you say the money isn't released until after the game is played, wouldn't this mean those players looking fro stakes because they don't have the funds are excluded, a fair part of your target market there i''d have thought?

Agree with this.  If it's sold at a mark up, maybe hold back the excess until settling after the event?

[George2Loose]

Being honest I don't see the benefits as being huge UNLESS you can get enough traffic. By which time u may have spent a lot of money on the site.

Also, ur money back guarantee is going to cost u an awful lot of money in the short term.

[smashedagain]

 was still reading Vinny.

What JB says. Most people this appeals to are potless and is the main reason for backing.

Can you give an example of how much is lost by the staker and the staked person when paying the 1-4% and 15% to poker bay ( an example in the £1k monte Carlo would be usefull )

Have you seen how you compare to the competition.

What advantage do I have going with you rather than using the free service at blonde ( thinking about it will it affect blonde )

[pleno1]

persoanlly, i think i can normally sell out on a value figure that I believe is good for both me and investors. I.e Barca at 1.25 which sold out very quickly meaning I could have sold out a little higher maybe, even perhaps at an auction price, but if I sold again tomorrow, I'd definitely sell at 1.25.

Also if I am ocnfident selling out elsewhere then paying 1-4% in the long run will hurt.

[cambridgealex]

•   Money back guarantee – if the player goes AWOL and doesn’t play / doesn’t return any winnings, you get your money back. One strike policy for such scammers.

•   There's still no guarantee that players won't bink and run. No way around that, there's always going to be a risk of that when staking. The one thing Poker Bay does offer is a money back guarantee for players who haven't qualified for pre tournament payment.

Are you just paying the stake back or covering the lost winnings?

If it's the latter are you insuring yourself against it?

Just paying the stake back, but that whole idea is up for change.

My thoughts were the main target Market don't need the money up front, they sell to reduce variance rather than literally needing the cash. So they might not mind that system.

For those that need the money, I was thinking about getting them to send their share to me, then i buy them in over the phone or whatever to the comp concerned. That's not in the plan right now, but it's an idea.