That old guy stole my future (and other animals)

[MANTIS01]

I'm a big believer in change the things you can change and accept the things you can't.

Just be grateful for what you do have and get on with it instead of than wasting your time blaming someone for 'Stealing your future'

The End, nh.

[The Camel]

Really interesting thread.

Not sure of my opinion, but well argued on both sides.

[RED-DOG]

The lighting of the flame may just be the best thing ever. At a time when, economically, the youth have been robbed of their futures by the old, it was symbolic to have the old Olympians pass their chance to lit the flame on to the young.

I'm a big believer in change the things you can change and accept the things you can't.

Just be grateful for what you do have and get on with it instead of than wasting your time blaming someone for 'Stealing your future'

yeah Andrew stop this constant moaning and blaming, then Red Dog wouldn't have to be such a hater at the younger generation

And Jon MW wouldn't have to be such a liar.

[RED-DOG]

Really interesting thread.

Not sure of my opinion, but well argued on both sides.

I'm not saying that things are or are not tougher for young people these days. (Although the argument seems solely based on finances, no mention of better health care, living / working conditions, education / travel opportunities etc...) 

I'm just saying that 'Woe is me, someone stole my future' is a piss poor attitude.

[Jon MW]

...

I'm just saying that 'Woe is me, someone stole my future' is a piss poor attitude.

lol my point was that as mentioned later on in the thread, AndrewT's original comment was nothing to do with attitude or individual opinion - it was a reflection of the macro-economic analysis by world class economists which is widely known and acknowledged.

The naming of the thread in this particular manner was obviously just the fun part of it

[EvilPie]

The old bought their houses cheap, pocketed the huge rise in the value of their homes, and yet now the young are having to pay higher taxes to pay for the pensions of the old, when the young themselves will get a pension of zero.

I'm quite interested in this statement.

Why is it the "fault" of the people who bought the houses? I'm pretty sure they didn't drive the prices up themselves. It was a subsequent generation (most likely mine and yours Andrew) who were so desperate to get their prime location London houses off them who offered ridic money in order to tempt them to sell.

Is it not more likely the banking/finance sectors who paid huge salaries to their people thus enabling them to make silly offers that drove the prices up? Is it not also the estate agents pushing prices up?

I can't see how you can blame someone for buying a house at market price, only to find 30 - 40 years later that a ridiculous financial system has somehow pushed their property value to such a high that they can sell it, move somewhere that's actually nice and live of the half million+ that's left over.

[RED-DOG]

...

I'm just saying that 'Woe is me, someone stole my future' is a piss poor attitude.

lol my point was that as mentioned later on in the thread, AndrewT's original comment was nothing to do with attitude or individual opinion - it was a reflection of the macro-economic analysis by world class economists which is widely known and acknowledged.

The naming of the thread in this particular manner was obviously just the fun part of it

What an absolute load of bollocks.

That's just a fun way of saying that I don't necessarily agree with the macro-economic analysis by world class economists.

 

[AndrewT]

Matt, it's not their fault (as everyone tries to do what is best for themselves) but people don't seem to think where all this money seemed to come from, how the young have been negatively impacted by it and exactly how tough future generations are going to find it. House prices have been artificially boosted by being bought with mortgages based on fictitious incomes, a lack of new build social housing, allowing people to buy their council homes (possibly the single most damaging piece of legislation introduced here since the war) and allowing the population to continue to expand despite even a stagnant population meaning there is greater pressure on housing due to more people living alone/ broken families.

Perhaps if I'd said 'unintentionally hoarded' as opposed to 'robbed' in a throwaway post at 2am or whenever then it might have been better.

[RED-DOG]

Some bastard melted my icecap, but you don't hear me complaining.

[pleno1]

i would say that the general intelligence level (common sense, understand current affairs) is super low in my generation.

obviously can't compare it, but so many people just bothered about getting drunk/partying and don't really give a fuck. its the "living for the weekend mentality" I understand its been like this in almost all generations, but still think (especially with the internet) its even higher in mine.

[AndrewT]

Really interesting thread.

Not sure of my opinion, but well argued on both sides.

I'm not saying that things are or are not tougher for young people these days. (Although the argument seems solely based on finances, no mention of better health care, living / working conditions, education / travel opportunities etc...) 

I'm just saying that 'Woe is me, someone stole my future' is a piss poor attitude.

All those things are on the turn though, that's the point. By 'young' I'm not referring to people like me in their mid 30s but teenagers - the NHS will become more stretched and less effective, the living/working conditions are going to get worse, education in the state sector is already way worse than it was when I went to school, judging from what teachers tell me.

They'll find it mind-boggling that people on average wages were able to buy houses, or could retire at 65 and get a state pension, or travel off round the world on gap years before going to university and not be up to their eyeballs in debt.

[EvilPie]

I have to say that on my current wage which is pretty good there's no way I could buy my current house from scratch.

I'd probably need about a £100k+ deposit.

To be fair I've probably paid more than that in mortgage payments over the last 15 years so I can see where it comes from.

If I'd rented though there's no way I'd have enough to get the same house I have now. This is partly because the money I saved on not having a big mortgage would've been pissed up the wall.

[redarmi]

I recently read a really great article by Zadie Smith about libraries which, for those interested, can be read here http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/jun/02/north-west-london-blues/

There is a paragraph in it that I thought was fairly relevant to this debate:

"And so I recognize myself to be an intensely naïve person. Most novelists are, despite frequent pretensions to deep socio-political insight. And I retain a particular naivety concerning the British state, which must seem comical to many people, particularly younger people. I can only really account for it by reaching back again, briefly, into the past. It’s a short story about debt—because I owe the state, quite a lot. Some people owe everything they have to the bank accounts of their parents. I owe the state. Put simply, the state educated me, fixed my leg when it was broken, and gave me a grant that enabled me to go to university. It fixed my teeth (a bit) and found housing for my veteran father in his dotage. When my youngest brother was run over by a truck it saved his life and in particular his crushed right hand, a procedure that took half a year, and which would, on the open market—so a doctor told me at the time—have cost a million pounds. Those were the big things, but there were also plenty of little ones: my subsidized sports centre and my doctor’s office, my school music lessons paid for with pennies, my university fees. My NHS glasses aged 9. My NHS baby aged 33. And my local library. To steal another writer’s title: England made me."

That is how I feel about what i got from the state but future generations won't get that.  Partly because so many think they shouldn't contribute and would rather have lower taxes themselves but also because it was probably not sustainable in the long run once the currnet consumerist culture had begun to take over.  Did the older generations work hard.  For sure but they also got a real helping hand in a lot of areas and I, for one, think that was a good thing.

[MANTIS01]

Young people are growing up in an age with a choice of about one thousand tv channels, HD for sharper picture quality, 50" screen, surround sound cinema, even 3D. Great for during the olympics, press the red button for ur choice of events and pause the live action if you wanna get a beer. When I was young I had Blankety Blank on a box of laminate wood and a spectrum in my bedroom.

[The Camel]

I recently read a really great article by Zadie Smith about libraries which, for those interested, can be read here http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/jun/02/north-west-london-blues/

There is a paragraph in it that I thought was fairly relevant to this debate:

"And so I recognize myself to be an intensely naïve person. Most novelists are, despite frequent pretensions to deep socio-political insight. And I retain a particular naivety concerning the British state, which must seem comical to many people, particularly younger people. I can only really account for it by reaching back again, briefly, into the past. It’s a short story about debt—because I owe the state, quite a lot. Some people owe everything they have to the bank accounts of their parents. I owe the state. Put simply, the state educated me, fixed my leg when it was broken, and gave me a grant that enabled me to go to university. It fixed my teeth (a bit) and found housing for my veteran father in his dotage. When my youngest brother was run over by a truck it saved his life and in particular his crushed right hand, a procedure that took half a year, and which would, on the open market—so a doctor told me at the time—have cost a million pounds. Those were the big things, but there were also plenty of little ones: my subsidized sports centre and my doctor’s office, my school music lessons paid for with pennies, my university fees. My NHS glasses aged 9. My NHS baby aged 33. And my local library. To steal another writer’s title: England made me."

That is how I feel about what i got from the state but future generations won't get that.  Partly because so many think they shouldn't contribute and would rather have lower taxes themselves but also because it was probably not sustainable in the long run once the currnet consumerist culture had begun to take over.  Did the older generations work hard.  For sure but they also got a real helping hand in a lot of areas and I, for one, think that was a good thing.

That's a great quote Stu.

My niece is currently getting ready to attend university in the Autumn.

She will work in the caring profession when she graduates.

She is more intelligent, more motivated and more compassionate than I ever was (or will ever be)

My university education was free. She is going to leave uni with a debt of tens of thousands of pounds.

It's a disgrace.