4 day Package including Weekend - ROI of 150% last month - Selling %'s

[jackinbeat]

I was out with James last night and asked him about you, hence my interest here. I think you've misunderstood quite how it works, understandly so, it's very confusing when you first start out, with people branding about all sorts of terms, I certainly don't think this falls in the "taking the piss" category (although on paper, it actually is lol), so I disagree with pleno that you are "covering it up as 50/50".

Thanks. I'm serious in that I have spare time ( I help run an events company in Barcelona, it's nearly 2 years old, and we've booked the rest of the summer season here, artists confirmed, all logistics in place), all I need to do is be at the venues on the day to set up and the evening to help host, and there's only 3 more this summer. So this has left me with the time to spend working on my game, but not the finance.

More than I really want to share on a forum, but as i'm selling myself so to speak, it seems fair.

Still unsure what is a fair price, I know it varies for all, so if standard is somewhere between 75/25 to 60/40 or even 50/50 what would be a fair price for this package?

[pleno1]

Why ever say 50/50, 70/30 markup is the recognised term. It's 50% at 2.0'right?

[pleno1]

How do you play on stars from Spain??

Also guess markup is slightly diff because u offer stale back.

[jackinbeat]

How do you play on stars from Spain??

Also guess markup is slightly diff because u offer stale back.

I really haven't studied mark up, my bad there. I just looked at similar packages from players with similar ROI's and buy ins/a staking deal I just left (in profit).

I'm back in the UK a lot, the business is in Barcelona, I'm in Manchester when i'm back.

[Longy]

I hate to do this, but I feel I have to say something as if someone were to invest in you and stars found out it maybe gg money.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=33900371&postcount=553

Clearly stated at the bottom of the post that playing on pokerstars.com from Spain is clearly not allowed.

[jackinbeat]

I hate to do this, but I feel I have to say something as if someone were to invest in you and stars found out it maybe gg money.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=33900371&postcount=553

Clearly stated at the bottom of the post that playing on pokerstars.com from Spain is clearly not allowed.

I know of many people playing via VPN's who have not had a problem. I wouldn't want to admit to having done it on a public forum, just saying I know many who have never had a issue, if it happened.

As I said I'm back in the UK all the time.

[Longy]

I hate to do this, but I feel I have to say something as if someone were to invest in you and stars found out it maybe gg money.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=33900371&postcount=553

Clearly stated at the bottom of the post that playing on pokerstars.com from Spain is clearly not allowed.

I know of many people playing via VPN's who have not had a problem. I wouldn't want to admit to having done it on a public forum, just saying I know many who have never had a issue, if it happened.

As I said I'm back in the UK all the time.

I am not really interested in accusing you of anything, as long as it your own money do whatever you feel is best. In this spot though you are asking others to invest their money and it is important they know the associated risks with playing on .com in Spain.

[cambridgealex]

I'm going to be putting in huge hours on this package, isn't it fair to ask for 60/40 on 100% at these stakes. I have reasons for not wanting to invest my own funds but will buy 25% if everyone thinks that's right.

I appreciate all constructive criticism, and what you say is fair. I've not been active that much on here in the past, and don't have any history, have lurked since 2006. I'm really not trying to cover anything up and have tried to make it clear in all post I was unsure the right price/% to offer, I've seen similar packages for the same stakes, and sold action for the MM's on 2plus2 before I had enough posts to sell on here.

I have met many people who post on here when I was dealing the circuit in the UK and Ireland at places like DTD, UKIPT's, IPO, Ladbrokes and many more, knowing who the people are who are staking me is important, if that includes tournament history reviews/coaching great.

I've got decent results, am not really looking to grind $1 tournaments, and with all due respect think with recent results I'm a decent investment, others have said that. I respect why you said it, but hope you'll agree if you look at my results/volume i've put in a fair grind already.

Asking for 60/40 is not fair no. I'll explain why.

Chris Moorman is probably the most successful online tournament player in the world. I've looked him up on Sharkscope and on Stars he has an 19% ROI over 11,000 tournaments with an average buyin of £122 (dunno why the new sharkscope does it in £)

You're playing tournaments with an average buyin of about £2 I guess so your ROI will probably be higher than Chris' funnily enough. Let's say your ROI in these comps is 40%. In fact, I'll look you up and see what it is. 32% over 3500 games. Very nice.

OK so what this means is that if you were selling a package and you wanted your investors to put up 100% of the buyins for 60% of the profits, I'm not actually sure how to work out what markup that equates to lol, I know without stakeback it's 100/60 = 1.666 but you're offering stakeback first so that improves it a bit. I imagine it's around 1.5

For the deal to be BREAK EVEN for investors, with a 32% ROI you need to sell at 1.32, so you selling at 1.5ish is a very bad deal for them.

You should either sell a package at 1.1 or 1.2 for say 70% of the buyins, then put in a little bit yourself or ask for 100% of the buyin, at 75/25 imo.

[jackinbeat]

I'm going to be putting in huge hours on this package, isn't it fair to ask for 60/40 on 100% at these stakes. I have reasons for not wanting to invest my own funds but will buy 25% if everyone thinks that's right.

I appreciate all constructive criticism, and what you say is fair. I've not been active that much on here in the past, and don't have any history, have lurked since 2006. I'm really not trying to cover anything up and have tried to make it clear in all post I was unsure the right price/% to offer, I've seen similar packages for the same stakes, and sold action for the MM's on 2plus2 before I had enough posts to sell on here.

I have met many people who post on here when I was dealing the circuit in the UK and Ireland at places like DTD, UKIPT's, IPO, Ladbrokes and many more, knowing who the people are who are staking me is important, if that includes tournament history reviews/coaching great.

I've got decent results, am not really looking to grind $1 tournaments, and with all due respect think with recent results I'm a decent investment, others have said that. I respect why you said it, but hope you'll agree if you look at my results/volume i've put in a fair grind already.

Asking for 60/40 is not fair no. I'll explain why.

Chris Moorman is probably the most successful online tournament player in the world. I've looked him up on Sharkscope and on Stars he has an 19% ROI over 11,000 tournaments with an average buyin of £122 (dunno why the new sharkscope does it in £)

You're playing tournaments with an average buyin of about £2 I guess so your ROI will probably be higher than Chris' funnily enough. Let's say your ROI in these comps is 40%. In fact, I'll look you up and see what it is. 32% over 3500 games. Very nice.

OK so what this means is that if you were selling a package and you wanted your investors to put up 100% of the buyins for 60% of the profits, I'm not actually sure how to work out what markup that equates to lol, I know without stakeback it's 100/60 = 1.666 but you're offering stakeback first so that improves it a bit. I imagine it's around 1.5

For the deal to be BREAK EVEN for investors, with a 32% ROI you need to sell at 1.32, so you selling at 1.5ish is a very bad deal for them.

You should either sell a package at 1.1 or 1.2 for say 70% of the buyins, then put in a little bit yourself or ask for 100% of the buyin, at 75/25 imo.

Thanks for that post Alex, in fact all posts replies here have been useful, this one really makes some sense of the whole mark up, I think.

So for this package, ideally I don't want to use my own funds, along with the time factor, i'm currently trying to rent half a flat in Barcelona that I don't use but will be paying for for the next two months if it remains empty. So taking that my ROI this year is 155%, last 120 days is 55%, these figures are off OPR, so willing to look at again if sharkscope is different.

Would 1.3 be a fair price for the whole package, this is the same as 70/30 isn't it, or am I worth more/less on current form?

[cambridgealex]

If you're ROI was anything like 155% then yes, I'd do a 50/50 deal! However your TRUE ROI will be much closer to 30 or 40%, making a 70/30 deal pretty close to breakeven, so as someone who backs almost entirely to make money, I wouldn't risk it in a breakeven punt which may be slightly +EV, but may also be -EV at that price.

[jackinbeat]

If you're ROI was anything like 155% then yes, I'd do a 50/50 deal! However your TRUE ROI will be much closer to 30 or 40%, making a 70/30 deal pretty close to breakeven, so as someone who backs almost entirely to make money, I wouldn't risk it in a breakeven punt which may be slightly +EV, but may also be -EV at that price.

Remember what I said about Moorman, best online player in the world perhaps - 19% ROI. I'm sure he's gone through 6month periods with ROIs in the hundreds of %, those sample sizes mean very little.

I hear you Alex, the figure on OPR for this year is 151%, most of my volume has been played this year too. But I get what you say about true ROI, that's at 43% according to OPR. I don't understand how you get to break even being 70/30, would that not mean my ROI is 30%?

Thanks for all the posts clearing this up, as you say Alex you're in this entirely to make money, there's no other reason I play poker online, I see this as a fair shot, understand the risk financially is with the backer, and as I've said I've got the time available, saying that I'm not looking to score big, I know I have an edge in these games, have actually been running under EV, and feel confident enough to put my self on the line here. I see this as a good investment, i've just finished a 4 month stake in profit as it was holding me back. I want to continue to build my reputation through returning profits, can't guarantee it will happen, no one can, but can guarantee that i'll be doing everything I can to return as much profit as I can.

Whoever mentioned Dragons Den before was spot on, although my ambitions here are a little less than JJ's, anyone still in?

[GreekStein]

stars software is very good at detecting VPN usage.

[jackinbeat]

stars software is very good at detecting VPN usage.

Is it really that good, that's not a challenge to stars, clearly I wouldn't want to risk having my account closed. Although I have seen first hand players in countries with their own stars site, playing on the .com site with no issue then or in the future. Maybe I'll look to set up a stars.es account when I'm there, with Rafa promoting it, the games have got to be attracting recreational players.

Of course if anything I did during a package meant the account was locked then i'd stand for all funds lost including any profit.

[millidonk]

Just so you know, In an ideal world your markup would only be a reflection of your true roi but unfortunately real life has taught us that we must take other things into account, something such as the possibility of being grimmed.. obv not for a second saying this would happen or this is your intention but in your case from an outsiders pov I would think: I haven't met this guy in person, he spends a lot of time out of the UK, Knows first hand of people using VPNs, been quite vague on who he actually is, has been a member on the forum since 2006 but has racked up >300 posts in 3 weeks and openly admitted this was just to get staking etc. Coupled with ideally  not wanting to put any money up yourself etc. your best bet would be to do a 75/25 or 70/30 after stake back. I know it feels like a lot for the hours you are giving away, but you have already said you have nothing to do and the backers will be taking 100% of the financial risk.

Continuing the dragonsden theme I will take 5% at a one off 75/25 In backers favour after stake back deal.

[pleno1]

If you play through a VPN they will find you and they will shut you down and when they do that they will cnfoscate all the money.

Gud lack