GUKPT Main postflop plan

[TL900]

Pretty interesting/awkward hand in GUKPT main on saturday.

playing 150/300/25

Villian 1 : 25k to start hand. Very good player have alot of history vs him online. Opening a reasonable amount of pots nothing crazy.

Villian 2 : 12k to start hand. Very passive/tight rec player it seems. Folded A8 earlier to my triple barrel on AQ98x. Playing 14/10/2 or something at a rough guess. Seeing alot of flops. Doesn't seem too bad though.

Villian 3 : 17k to start  hand Chris Dowling double UKIPT Final Tablist, never played with him before today but seemed to be playing well. Opening alot 3betting a dec amount playing well post.

Me : 25k to start hand. Have been opening a lot from mid-late pos and peeling alot IP. Havent 3bet once I don't think yet.

Ok so the hand,

150/300/25

V1 : opens to 600 UTG
V2 : calls UTG +1
V3 : 3bets to 1525 in the CO
Me : I look down at    on the button and cold 4 to 3500, my image isn't crazy and I think its a really good spot to try and win the 3300-3500 in the middle, looks pretty strong imo especially as i havent 3bet once and i have A blocker init.

V1 sighs and folds, V2 snap folds

V3 looks at me a few times, and flats after about 30-45 seconds. (didn't really expect to get flatted and not really sure what sorta range to give him) thought he might have a big hand (AA/KK) or some suited connector type hand KQs AQs JTs 89s etc, (had seen him get to showdown after 3 betting twice with suited connectors) Also don't think he ever has JJ-QQ/AK (assume he flats TT pre for sure if not these 3 hands) because he 6bet shoved AK vs a pretty tight guy for like 20k eff at 100/200/25

Pot (8900) effective stack (villian) is about 13-13.5k

Flop :    

Villian 3 checks to me.

We?

[The Camel]

This is a slight derail and I apologise for this..

I have noticed in the last year or so that there has been a trend for cold 4 bets to be smaller than I would feel happy making.

Here you are laying him around 5/2, while with his stack size calling is questionable, if he had another 8k, it would be nearly automatic imo.

I have seen 4 bets from good players laying the opponent as big as 7/2.

I rarely lay bigger than 2/1. Why is this wrong?

If someone could explain the logic behind this trend, or point the way to an a decent article explaining it, I would appreciate it.

[pleno1]

Because you're in position and generally people will 5b or fold, of they peel oop then gl to them.

As played here I'd bet around 650-800 and evaluate on turn. I've Ben experimenting with it recently and although it gets you into some difficult spots I think it induces some really random spew from the weaker part of villains range. We can also triple qx kx, turn 2 pair/trips and protect from all his Broadway's otf.

[discomonkey]

i think cold 4betting here is ok, but i prefer a hand that flops better than this.

otf i think we should bet 1700-2k, that will cost him a decent portion of his remainig chips to continue, we can protect our hand if we have the best of it making our life pretty easy, i feel he is more likely to shove/fold than check call any hand on this texture so we can play pretty perfectly vs him when we put him to somewhat of a decision with a normal sized bet.

[skolsuper]

Because you're in position and generally people will 5b or fold, of they peel oop then gl to them.

As played here I'd bet around 650-800 and evaluate on turn. I've Ben experimenting with it recently and although it gets you into some difficult spots I think it induces some really random spew from the weaker part of villains range. We can also triple qx kx, turn 2 pair/trips and protect from all his Broadway's otf.

(bolded part) Yeah pretty much this. Cold 4 was actually too big imo.

(unbolded part) But how many seconds would you wait before betting? 14? 19? Also this bet is pretty much the same as checking except it costs us a free card when our opponent raises. The extra information we got relative to checking is..... our opponent was trying a checkraise. OK good, now what?

[LonOhRay]

Option to make 4bet larger to dissuade peels and make it more of a 5b/f spot for him?

4.3k, as you haven't 3 or 4 before this. Needs to work ~60% of time to show a profit.

Otherwise 3k is more or less same as 3.5

[Young_gun]

Spewy 3 bet vs someone who is solid, id fold here. unless you think you have a good edge postflop dont really see the point 3 betting with a rubbish ace.

As played bet/fold 4.1k

[TL900]

I feel like my OP was very informative. I agree this wouldnt be the best spot to 3bet, but still not bad. This is a cold 4bet though and i think its a very good spot to do it personally.

@James, yea my online sizing would be a little smaller normally. I made it a little bigger just because its live etc, im fine with my sizing here tbh.

[cambridgealex]

@ Keith, "Because you're in position and generally people will 5b or fold, of they peel oop then gl to them."

What pleno said here is spot on. No matter the price, it'll be almost always be bad for villain to peel here oop. So we don't expect good players to ever peel - either 5bet or fold - so we waste less chips when we're bluffing by 4betting smaller.

[muckthenuts]

Thoughts on whether we can have any checking range at all in this spot on this texture with the PSR we have?

[cambridgealex]

I'd rather have k2 suited that A6o here (but only cos its live and ppl lolpeel when they shouldn't - esp Dowling because I've seen UKIPT footage...) but can understand that the spot is cool for a cold 4 and it's not so much about our hand and an Ace blocker is quite handy...

But yeh, always prefer a hand that flops better. Ideally a big pair or AK

I'm betting like 1/4 pot here. We'd never check back AA/KK or our total non showdown airballs so I think for balance and vs a good hand reader (which I think Chris is) we should bet our entire range on this flop.

Pleno's size is too small for me, and would never bet more that 40% pot with anything so 1/4 pot is my prefered sizing.

[muckthenuts]

Pleno's size is too small for me, and would never bet more that 40% pot with anything so 1/4 pot is my prefered sizing.

Yeah i felt the same, plus wouldn't want to induce anything here.

[DMorgan]

Disagree that its a good but not great spot for a cold 4. I think its pretty close to the nut spot for it because its a spot where V3 can obv be pretty light expecting to never get 4b by V2 and will win the pot post most of the time V2 peels and V1 is FOS a lot but very few people put in the 4b from UTG (way less than they should imo) so this all adds up to a pretty nutsy spot for V3 to squeeze and people are generally gunna play pretty straightforward vs this 4b. If he's sitting there with the 95hh it'll for sure cross his mind to 5b but he can't 5b/fold and after a few moments of pondering will convince himself that its a live 1k so he'll find better spots, sigh give it up.

These sort of wtf plays in my experience tend to be either (a) retarded or (b) nutted and since from what he know the guy is competent/good then he probably just has AA/KK. fwiw I think if he did have those hands then he's going to peel them almost always with these stacks, so I would just check and try to source some riot gear in case you turn a 6.

[SuuPRlim]

I find myself here way less than most people but i'm kinda feeling a flop chk.

[youthnkzR]

U can deffinatly take AA/KK/QQ out of his range as its live.

4 bet sizing is maybe slightly on the large side but not too bad.. As played bet like ~2k and reassess.. Although I feel you'll have to fire 2 / maybe 3 bullets here.