English Poker Open/GUKPT London

[vegaslover]

To clarify, as it was me who started this debate, which I now almost wish I had not.

It is not an argument, I simply asked James a polite question. James is a good friend, he & I can discuss these things openly, & I think the question was fair.

James would not "cheat" in a million years, & I never suggested as such.

"Unethical"? Not quite sure if it is, or not, but that was not my point.

It just "feels" a bit dirty to me. There may be some Billy No Mates at the Table, or those who do not have the advantage of a bunch of onside friends on blonde to ask.

It is certainly not cheating, & it is apparently well within the rules, or at least the letter of them, if not the spirit.

It just seems to me that poker was not intended to be played this way, with players at the table frantically Posting on assorted Forums in an attempt to gain an edge. Where will that end, with some players having their own dedicated "stream spy" to relay them info?

Perhaps fairer is if all the players can watch the delayed stream, everyone has the same info then.

I suppose it's a generation gap thing, which I readily concede, as I am approaching my dotage, whereas James is merely late middle-aged.   

Tikay sums it up pretty well IMO. It's not cheating and probably not strictly unethical, but poker should be a game of incomplete infornmation, which it no longer is.
I'm sure if someone shouted loudly enough in the UK the GC may well take an interest

[The Camel]

Do you get kicked out of comp for not showing cards to camera?

I'd not allow the camera to see my cards. Stops Seat 2 from asking his mate back home what I had.

There'd be quite a hoohah if they tried to disqualify me because I refused to let the camera see my hand.

The disruption caused to players, & play, during the WSOP main by ESPN is incredibly bad, & the players don't get a penny of recompense. Bang wrong, that, but every year, the players dutifully go along with it. It is part of the T & C's, of course, but there'd be a barney & a half if Billy Big Name (say, Little Danny) got disqualified for not showing. Camel might agree though..... 

But impossible Danny wouldn't show his cards.

He would do anything for tv exposure.

If ESPN asked him to stroll through the Rio wearing nothing but a ten gallon hat and a big smile singing the Lumberjack song the only question he'd ask is "In B flat or B Major?"

[Tal]

If I became an F1 driver and made the podium, I'd refuse to wear a baseball cap on the basis that I don't have a hat head and baseball caps make the case for this most strongly. It would affect my image as well, so there would be a financial detriment too.

And my wrist is way too thin for a Breitling. I'd look like I was wearing a watch designed by Kenny Everett.

[tikay]

If I became an F1 driver and made the podium, I'd refuse to wear a baseball cap on the basis that I don't have a hat head and baseball caps make the case for this most strongly. It would affect my image as well, so there would be a financial detriment too.

And my wrist is way too thin for a Breitling. I'd look like I was wearing a watch designed by Kenny Everett.

But you would not mind looking daft, as you'd be PAID for wearing them.......

Players are not paid to show their hole cards & I'm not sure they should feel obliged to, (T & C's excepted) especially if it may confer an advantage to others.

I don't believe for one moment that the EPO organisers thought this may happen.

I guess they will tolerate it though, as watching the Stream raises the profile of the Event, & it's Sponsors, which they understandably find acceptable & pleasing.   

[The Camel]

Can't believe my post didn't get any love.

Pretty damn proud of it on all sorts of levels.

[tikay]

Can't believe my post didn't get any love.

Pretty damn proud of it on all sorts of levels.

It was like your Tweets, Keith, a thing of beauty to some, "you are an appendage" to others. Sir.

I did tee it up especially for you, too, with the DN reference.

[dino1980]

I was chatting to someone, who's pretty savvy when it comes to technology, at UKIPT Newcastle and he told me about Google Vision Glasses (see link below). Basically he reckoned that poker players could wear them at the table and essentially be able to have a live HUD. I wasn't really convinced to be honest, but he seemed adamant that players who wore these would be able to use them to their advantage somehow.

http://twistedsifter.com/2012/04/project-glass-googles-vision-for-augmented-reality/

[Tal]

I was chatting to someone, who's pretty savvy when it comes to technology, at UKIPT Newcastle and he told me about Google Vision Glasses (see link below). Basically he reckoned that poker players could wear them at the table and essentially be able to have a live HUD. I wasn't really convinced to be honest, but he seemed adamant that players who wore these would be able to use them to their advantage somehow.

http://twistedsifter.com/2012/04/project-glass-googles-vision-for-augmented-reality/

I am going to Dragons' Den immediately!

Can we invent a pair of sunglasses that use facial recognition software to sync up to notes you have already made about them? When you look across your table, you see arrows hovering above their heads with "Massive fish", "Comedy Station" or "Avoid at all costs".

Hands up who's in!

[blueace]

During the DTD 500 on the early feature table after the break (25 minutes after the hand) the villlain said loud and clear on the table 'nice play with the ace' or similair, having had the news of a particular hand we were in. It left me feeling a little bit 'cheated'. So whilst its allowable it definately felt to me that it wasnt in the spirit of the game to use that information and then publicy declare you have done the same.

[TightEnd]

During the DTD 500 on the early feature table after the break (25 minutes after the hand) the villlain said loud and clear on the table 'nice play with the ace' or similair, having had the news of a particular hand we were in. It left me feeling a little bit 'cheated'. So whilst its allowable it definately felt to me that it wasnt in the spirit of the game to use that information and then publicy declare you have done the same.

At DTD your phone is taken off you if you are on the feature, and access to the feed is blocked to anyone in the building

So everything is done to make the access to information the same as everyone

Of course you can't stop Friend at home texting friend at rail who then tells player at the break, and a reasonable delay on the feed seeks to minimise the impact of that information being available on the "game flow"

So when you enter the comp you know that a little bit of tournament integrity might be  lost if you make the final as info can get from rail to table but you also know that the stream helps promote the club, brings players in, gives you yourself coverage, helps friends and family rail you, for thirsd party events gives sponsors value etc etc etc. (albeit arguably players do nothing to obtain a value for their presence on a stream, their image rights etc etc)

I'm not criticising the players in the EPO or necessarily even the organisers, but phones at the table etc takes the issue of it being a game of incomplete information, but everyone having the same incomplete information, into different areas in my opinion

You can justifiably say that the stream can be shown in the club, or phones taken off players, or players not talk to the rail until off the feature, I don't really mind but the point is that the extent of the information should be EQUALLY available to all players on a feature. Not sure it is in the EPO, but equally if I was on it I'd want the advantage too, as it currently allows

[TightEnd]

and as they entered today, the Poker News report summarised as follows

Day 1b of the English Poker Open attracted 68 player, taking the total number of entrants to 138, and these players have created a £276,000 prize pool. The man who ended the day as the chip leader, and also became the overall chip leader, was Mohammed Haque with 178,000 chips.

Haque is a regular at the Fox Poker Club, the fantastic venue that is hosting this year's English Poker Open, in fact he took down the Fox Poker Club Main Event in September last year for a bankroll-boosting score of £12,650.

Day 1b also saw a number of high profile players buy in for £2,180 and then progress through to today's Day 2 with very healthy stacks. Ben Jackson is one of the best up-and-coming players this country has to offer and the man sporting Genting Poker colours finished the day with 109,400 chips, which is enough to place him fourth overall. Joining Jackson and Co. is Mickey “mement_mori” Petersen with 102,600 chips. Petersen is a Team PokerStars online pro and a European Poker Tour champion. Now the young Dane has plenty of chips to play with he is going to be a real pain in the neck for anyone on his table.

Other notable players to navigate through include Steve Watts (90,375), Manig Loeser (75,600) and poker veteran Surinder Sunar (56,350).

Play resumes this afternoon where the 63 surviving players will battle it down to what we believe will be the final table. Join us tomorrow to find out which stars made it through and who fell by the wayside.

English Poker Open Day 2 Top 10 Chip Counts
Position   Name   Chips
1   Mohammed Haque   178,000
2   Igor Kurganov   117,450
3   Rhys Jones   116,100
4   Ben Jackson   109,400
5   Ian Simpson   103,625
6   Mickey Petersen   102,600
7   Mathew Frankland   99,175
8   Marvin Babul   92,725
9   Steve Watts   90,375
10   Chris Bjorin   86,575


Read more: http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2012/09/english-poker-open-day-1b-mohammed-haque-grabs-overall-chip-9184.htm

[Royal Flush]

I'm genuinely shocked at a lot of the opinions of people here about live streamed hole cards and the idea that people should all show their cards and then choose not to look.

As a side note i did not show my hole cards for the first 2 hrs yesterday until i was shown how the whole system worked, basically nobody has access to the feed in real time which was my fear being in a poker club with over 100 people milling around.

Whoever suggested having the stream in the room came up with the best solution imo. I love Rob and DTD but the idea that you can have a TV table in the same room as a few hundred people and think that just taking phones away will solve the issue is a tad optimistic...just stream it in the club or put your TV table in a separate room and sequester the players.

[istrabraq]

Updates to this event is shocking need a proper blog and updates . Should have employed tighty

[Junior Senior]

so say a miracle happens and i make a final table at DTD which is live streamed and i refuse to show my cards... what punnishment could be levelled against me given that i havent signed a release or waiver

[TightEnd]

so say a miracle happens and i make a final table at DTD which is live streamed and i refuse to show my cards... what punnishment could be levelled against me given that i havent signed a release or waiver

It's a good question, one for Simon and team. Will ask when I am next in

On a related issue, when we went from 17 to 16 and streaming last Sunday, we had an Anon in the field. He gave permission to go named and shown. Would have been interesting if he insisted on Anon, or even if he could have insisted



p.s GUKPT London underway today, will put daily round ups on here too starting tomorrow. Many blondes playing