Cash Games - Live

[relaedgc]

So, I will first and foremost admit that this is market research in a sense. If it contravenes any of the Blondepoker forum rules than I apologise in advance and I shall voice no complaint should it be removed. However, I believe that the feedback that will come of the question I pose should be of relevance to all.

Moving to the subject at hand, it occurs to me (though it is no revelation) that the UK poker scene is incredibly saturated. However, it is not so much the tournament side of things that I find myself worried with - it's cash action.

While regularly able to support 2/3 Dealer's Choice games 3 to 4 nights a week, I find that NLH cash games are becoming increasingly difficult to start and subsequently maintain.

If you play live cash, I'd like to hear your thoughts on a few questions?

1:) Where do you decide where you'll play cash? Do you pick your local venue? Do you look for a venue that has consistently high tournament fields? Do you go where the loosest players are?

2:) Does the rake factor in to your decision? Would you rather they ran promotions such as Bad bead jackpots or cash rake races?

3:) Do smaller promotions sway you? Free rake for an hour, free food/drink. What influences you in that sense?

4:) Do you prefer pre-arranged cash games that you know will be running, or do you turn up hoping for a game or simply once you've busted the competition?


Thanks in advance.

George

[scotty77]

1:) Where do you decide where you'll play cash? Do you pick your local venue? Do you look for a venue that has consistently high tournament fields? Do you go where the loosest players are?

The value.  Location.  Most of all likelihood of a game running.

2:) Does the rake factor in to your decision? Would you rather they ran promotions such as Bad bead jackpots or cash rake races?

Not a great deal.  Not bothered by promotions as I don't play enough live cash to make it worth my while

3:) Do smaller promotions sway you? Free rake for an hour, free food/drink. What influences you in that sense?

Same.   Free rake would be cool. Having high hands would be good I suppose

4:) Do you prefer pre-arranged cash games that you know will be running, or do you turn up hoping for a game or simply once you've busted the competition?

Hate turning up and there not being a game running.  If I got a text from a cardroom saying looking to get a 1/2 running on Monday from 7 do you want your name on the list I'd be more inclined to come if I knew a seat was locked for say 30mins or so.

Hence when I do play live cash now it's mainly at the Vic cos I know 24/7 I can get on a game.  My personal opinion is that the tournies at Luton are now too small to support cash game players....if there was a £100 tournie I'd come play that bust in an hour then go straight on cash.  Can't get motivated to drive an hour and then play some £30er.

But it's your venue and you know the industry way more than me and you need to cater to the local market.

[muckthenuts]

It's nice for you to take an interest in this, i'd be happy to answer the questions.

1) Wherever the biggest pots are being played. This depends a lot on where the regs with the deepest pockets are playing. A decently high table maximum is good, but not one which will mean players in the area can go broke too quickly though. 

2) Sessions >>>> rake. I hate bad beat jackpots and would prefer to keep my money.

3) Yes it's always a great gesture when a casino shows it's giving something back in some form to the players who put the hours in. Broadway Casino in Birmingham had a thriving cash scene for ages, but the most they ever gave back to the regs was one free 1 course meal if they'd paid 30 sessions that month. Unsurprisingly those games are totally dead now and everyone moved to Star City where you pay the same session but they offer a considerable amount more in return.

4) It would be nice to know there's always a game on after a certain time in the day. Sometimes you can take this for granted, during slow times it'd be good to have them pre arranged.

[aaron1867]

1:) Where do you decide where you'll play cash? Do you pick your local venue? Do you look for a venue that has consistently high tournament fields? Do you go where the loosest players are?

I go where there is guaranteed action.

2:) Does the rake factor in to your decision? Would you rather they ran promotions such as Bad bead jackpots or cash rake races?

Yes, would be silly to say other wise. If you have a casino in the same city which is cheaper rake, it's common sense to go there. Genting offer max rake of £5 when they open in Sheffield and until recently the G-Casino at Sheffield it was £10 until 2 weeks ago, when it was put to £5. But until then we had to deal with rip-off rake.

3:) Do smaller promotions sway you? Free rake for an hour, free food/drink. What influences you in that sense?

Yes. Goes without saying. If there is nothing on poker wise and I fancy a game, makes it more easier to be persauded by extra points and free food and rake.

4:) Do you prefer pre-arranged cash games that you know will be running, or do you turn up hoping for a game or simply once you've busted the competition?

Both.

[Boba Fett]

I dont play much live cash so Im not interested at all in rake/promotions etc, I just go to the places with the best games and if its close Ill go to the casino that has the best atmosphere.

Interestingly, Genting Glasgow offered free rake on their cash games and couldnt get a game running as the fish didnt wanna leave the casinos they were at and the regs went to the games with the fish regardless of the rake.  The average player would fill those casinos because they had gtd games.

[blueace]

Dtd for all reasons, although on my rare trips On other poker tours, or trips to London I always check out the cash action irrespective of the why's and wherefores. Interestingly always win (to date) on cash when I travel, dtd obv  a solid place to mix it up. Or luck. 

[77dave]

People mainly what to play where they know they will there will be a game gtd to be running and good action. As far as i know DTD and the Vic have the most expensive rakes for low nlh cash games yet they have the most tables running.

Of course the level of the rake matters but that mainly affects the regs and the once a week player prob doesnt even know what the rake is at the end of his session.

When a  room loses its cash action its not easy to get it back as people know its not worth going as their wont be a game but how do you get the game going without the people.

Its gonna be a tough grind getting the action back but you have to let people know its a good game to play. With good runners in the comps you already have people in the door so you need to be proactive in getting them into the cash action. You need a table and dealer ready waiting for players to get knocked out of the comp. The dealer should have a bank of chips so the player knows he can get dealt in as soon as he gets to the table. Run the game rakefree for the 1st 1/2 hr or until 6 handed to get the game running. Cater a game for bigger players as well as smaller. Getting money into the room means action, value, that means more people and word will spread. People arent gonna come running to play 25p nlh.

You must make the staff much more proactive in getting cash games started.

[scotty77]

Excellent point there.  The amount of times there has been 10+ people waiting for cash but told they can't play cos of no dealer is ridic at Luton.  Have 1 dealer to start the game that is cash only and won't be on a tournie table.  Also the bank of chips is a great idea as getting games going at Luton is just too too long.

[luther101]

George, the Luton regs sussed the 'NHLE rake problem' ages ago     ....      the only winner is the House (oh, and Johnny Vacc/Barat - because they only play one hand an hour).

Luton must be one of the few cardrooms that will have three cash games going, and not one of them Hold em/Fold em - thank God!

But, even the session charges for the £1/1 dealers have put a few off too.

To charge £1 p/h pp less than the £2/2 game (whilst giving free food to those who can most afford to buy a sarnie) has caused much grinding of the teeth!

I know you've got an impossible job trying to strike a balance for such a diverse group of grumpy buggers, but please try to remember to cater for 'all pockets' - not just the ten man/one woman £2/2 Dealers Pool (who play    ...   three times a week?)

There have been times where a £1/1 Dealers game has broken because the players have been asked to pay full session charge, when the G could not provide a dealer, and the players simply walked out.

The standard excuse of 'Head Office rules' has worn a bit thin over the years    .....

We're in a recession - (the smaller) players can no longer afford to keep the Grosvenor Group in the lifestyle to which it has become accustomed.

You're trying to run a business - look at the problems     .....     fewer/no takers for a product/service means you've got to make what you're selling more 'appealing' to the market you're targeting.

You've gotta make it 'worth it' to get the punters through the doors, because anyone - with any sense - would/is going to take their folding where the rake/sesh charges are lower/lowest    .....     or, even better, slope off to a 'home game'.

[Poker_Monkey]

I think having a dealer the 30mins b4 the tourny starts with a table open and rack or two of chips infront of them ready to get a game going then and there would be a good way of getting the game going. Also the table should not close all night even if no one is sitting on it.

As the saying gose " bild it and they will come"

[luther101]

As the saying gose " bild it and they will come"

Only in Germany    ....

[Rockstar]

Re-entries and min 10k starting stack tournies dont help either

The local faces who used to come and spew thousands on nlh cash once or twice a week, just went busto in the end

£50 min buy-in Tournies, replaced with mickey mouse low buy inns, attract a different type of punter anyway

[nirvana]

Re-entries and min 10k starting stack tournies dont help either

This is a big part of the problem,

Especially tourneys like Friday's, where due to the add on you pretty much have the starting field still in the tourn at 10.30-11pm. Must have a neg impact on cash.

[JustinSayne]

One thing I would LOVE card rooms to add.

Change the minimum buy in.

Nothing tilts me more then these pigeons turning up with 25bb when the max buyin is 200bb etc.

They simply ruin the game when theres 6 players with 100bb+ stacks then this one dude playing with his lunch money.

As for the OP

So long as the rake is reasonable (5% with £10 cap for 1/2) I am not interested in any other promos. So long as the games regularly run and I can be sure to get a seat within 15 minutes of turning up, I'm super happy.

Not sure how many cards rooms have this, but allowing players to buyin to match the biggest stack is nice too.

[paulhouk03]

Good dealers is a must
nothing worse then playing full ring cash with a bad dealer