Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings

[arbboy]

Apols if anyone has asked this, or, if it's a dumb question.

Just because we acknowledge the Casino has the built in edge, there is no law that states this I presume?

In which case, if Ivey has done nothing that could be construed as illegal, like tampering with cards or forcing the dealer to do something dodgy( which probably are not actually illegal in themselves) then he has broken no law and should be paid.

I've read enough books on MIT exploits etc, but can't recall the answer, but sure card counting wasn't illegal, casinos just hate it, and so I presume this is the same?

As I said, dumb.

Adz the key here is card counting is a mind skill which cannot be proven is taken place with 100% certain.  Casino management can suspect it all they like but they could never accuse a player on 'cheating' by using the technique.  What Ivey has done is up to debate whether it's cheating or not.  Card counting could never be considered cheating.

[I KNOW IT]

I believe in this case the casino will feel their procedures have been broken and they will look to use that as their arguement. The fact the dealer/pit staff agreed to the terms may lead to Genting saying that they were in on the fixing/scam.This is not the first time something like this has happened and wont be the last.
Im not saying it is fixing/scam but I would be very confident in that is part of their arguement. Also surveillance could be involved.
These type of incidents are very common worldwide but its a highlighted case because of the punter involved .

[JoeBeevers]

Book still open for a while, case could be decided soon.

Any more Ivey backers (at evens) please PM me real name, email address and phone number plus amount you want and I'll reply to confirm action. Only regs and known players please.

[arbboy]

I believe in this case the casino will feel their procedures have been broken and they will look to use that as their arguement. The fact the dealer/pit staff agreed to the terms may lead to Genting saying that they were in on the fixing/scam.This is not the first time something like this has happened and wont be the last.
Im not saying it is fixing/scam but I would be very confident in that is part of their arguement. Also surveillance could be involved.
These type of incidents are very common worldwide but its a highlighted case because of the punter involved .

I agree with this regarding the procedures.  Does anyone know if any heads have rolled at Genting for this?  I would imagine numerous people on duty that night would have been suspended/sacked from dealer/inspector/pitboss/general manager upwards for allowing so many bog standard procedures to be broken at such high stakes.

[I KNOW IT]

I also think its pointless comparing it to other scenarios, the casino will definately look to procedure violation imo and certain staff may become the fall guys in this case. If a procedure has been violated it does not matter if the pit staff agreed to it, Genting could say they were also part of the team.
My opion is Phil Ivey loses.

[cambridgealex]

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

[I KNOW IT]

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

Why are you comparing this scenario with a game of poker, it has no relevance at all in this legal case. I thought you realised that James. Surprised you quoted this comparison to be honest

[I KNOW IT]

Joe, what odds are you offering for PI to lose the case?

[JoeBeevers]

Joe, what odds are you offering for PI to lose the case?

I'm not

[doubleup]

Flushy's point I think is just the morality/ethics of the two scenarios.  The casino's "fish" using suspect methods to fight back is admired by poker players, but the same poker players wouldn't be happy if a fish in their game started to employ dodgy tactics.

 

[I KNOW IT]

Joe, what odds are you offering for PI to lose the case?

I'm not

Was worth a try.. 

I wonder what Mark Goodwins opinion on this is lol

[Royal Flush]

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker we don't tell the fish he is a fish.

[RED-DOG]

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker we don't tell the fish he is a fish.

Fuck me James, which card rooms have you been playing in? Everywhere I go they fall over each other to tell me I am a fish.

[Woodsey]

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker we don't tell the fish he is a fish.

Fuck me James, which card rooms have you been playing in? Everywhere I go they fall over each other to tell me I am a fish.

lol in before me 

[Royal Flush]

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.

Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.

Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker we don't tell the fish he is a fish.

Fuck me James, which card rooms have you been playing in? Everywhere I go they fall over each other to tell me I am a fish.

Come to Brighton, we will make you feel welcome.

You will have to buy your own dinner though