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Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
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Topic: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings (Read 74888 times)
arbboy
Hero Member
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Posts: 13285
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #255 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:21:00 PM »
Quote from: BigAdz on October 07, 2014, 11:04:56 PM
Apols if anyone has asked this, or, if it's a dumb question.
Just because we acknowledge the Casino has the built in edge, there is no law that states this I presume?
In which case, if Ivey has done nothing that could be construed as illegal, like tampering with cards or forcing the dealer to do something dodgy( which probably are not actually illegal in themselves) then he has broken no law and should be paid.
I've read enough books on MIT exploits etc, but can't recall the answer, but sure card counting wasn't illegal, casinos just hate it, and so I presume this is the same?
As I said, dumb.
Adz the key here is card counting is a mind skill which cannot be proven is taken place with 100% certain. Casino management can suspect it all they like but they could never accuse a player on 'cheating' by using the technique. What Ivey has done is up to debate whether it's cheating or not. Card counting could never be considered cheating.
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I KNOW IT
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Posts: 3234
I'm the one the right ;)
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #256 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:22:53 PM »
I believe in this case the casino will feel their procedures have been broken and they will look to use that as their arguement. The fact the dealer/pit staff agreed to the terms may lead to Genting saying that they were in on the fixing/scam.This is not the first time something like this has happened and wont be the last.
Im not saying it is fixing/scam but I would be very confident in that is part of their arguement. Also surveillance could be involved.
These type of incidents are very common worldwide but its a highlighted case because of the punter involved .
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You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." "Heart is what separates the good from the great. '
"All money is good, just the quantity makes it better"
My Dad
"Poker Players and Vultures are alike. They both live off the flesh of the weak"
Tony Bolto
JoeBeevers
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Posts: 517
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #257 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:23:59 PM »
Book still open for a while, case could be decided soon.
Any more Ivey backers (at evens) please PM me real name, email address and phone number plus amount you want and I'll reply to confirm action. Only regs and known players please.
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arbboy
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Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #258 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:26:21 PM »
Quote from: I KNOW IT on October 07, 2014, 11:22:53 PM
I believe in this case the casino will feel their procedures have been broken and they will look to use that as their arguement. The fact the dealer/pit staff agreed to the terms may lead to Genting saying that they were in on the fixing/scam.This is not the first time something like this has happened and wont be the last.
Im not saying it is fixing/scam but I would be very confident in that is part of their arguement. Also surveillance could be involved.
These type of incidents are very common worldwide but its a highlighted case because of the punter involved .
I agree with this regarding the procedures. Does anyone know if any heads have rolled at Genting for this? I would imagine numerous people on duty that night would have been suspended/sacked from dealer/inspector/pitboss/general manager upwards for allowing so many bog standard procedures to be broken at such high stakes.
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I KNOW IT
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I'm the one the right ;)
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #259 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:32:21 PM »
I also think its pointless comparing it to other scenarios, the casino will definately look to procedure violation imo and certain staff may become the fall guys in this case. If a procedure has been violated it does not matter if the pit staff agreed to it, Genting could say they were also part of the team.
My opion is Phil Ivey loses.
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You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." "Heart is what separates the good from the great. '
"All money is good, just the quantity makes it better"
My Dad
"Poker Players and Vultures are alike. They both live off the flesh of the weak"
Tony Bolto
cambridgealex
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Posts: 14879
#lovethegame
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #260 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM »
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
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Poker goals:
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I KNOW IT
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 3234
I'm the one the right ;)
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #261 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:52:45 PM »
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Why are you comparing this scenario with a game of poker, it has no relevance at all in this legal case. I thought you realised that James. Surprised you quoted this comparison to be honest
«
Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 11:55:18 PM by I KNOW IT
»
Logged
You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." "Heart is what separates the good from the great. '
"All money is good, just the quantity makes it better"
My Dad
"Poker Players and Vultures are alike. They both live off the flesh of the weak"
Tony Bolto
I KNOW IT
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 3234
I'm the one the right ;)
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #262 on:
October 07, 2014, 11:57:13 PM »
Joe, what odds are you offering for PI to lose the case?
Logged
You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." "Heart is what separates the good from the great. '
"All money is good, just the quantity makes it better"
My Dad
"Poker Players and Vultures are alike. They both live off the flesh of the weak"
Tony Bolto
JoeBeevers
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 517
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #263 on:
October 08, 2014, 12:02:04 AM »
Quote from: I KNOW IT on October 07, 2014, 11:57:13 PM
Joe, what odds are you offering for PI to lose the case?
I'm not
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doubleup
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Posts: 7070
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #264 on:
October 08, 2014, 12:03:44 AM »
Flushy's point I think is just the morality/ethics of the two scenarios. The casino's "fish" using suspect methods to fight back is admired by poker players, but the same poker players wouldn't be happy if a fish in their game started to employ dodgy tactics.
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I KNOW IT
Hero Member
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Posts: 3234
I'm the one the right ;)
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #265 on:
October 08, 2014, 12:10:46 AM »
Quote from: JoeBeevers on October 08, 2014, 12:02:04 AM
Quote from: I KNOW IT on October 07, 2014, 11:57:13 PM
Joe, what odds are you offering for PI to lose the case?
I'm not
Was worth a try..
I wonder what Mark Goodwins opinion on this is lol
Logged
You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." "Heart is what separates the good from the great. '
"All money is good, just the quantity makes it better"
My Dad
"Poker Players and Vultures are alike. They both live off the flesh of the weak"
Tony Bolto
Royal Flush
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 22975
Booooccccceeeeeee
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #266 on:
October 08, 2014, 01:01:19 AM »
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker we don't tell the fish he is a fish.
Logged
[19:44:40] Oracle: WE'RE ALL GOING ON A SPANISH HOLIDAY! TRIGGS STABLES SHIT!
RED-DOG
International Lover World Wide Playboy
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Posts: 47061
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #267 on:
October 08, 2014, 01:16:07 AM »
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 08, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker
we don't tell the fish he is a fish.
Fuck me James, which card rooms have you been playing in? Everywhere I go they fall over each other to tell me I am a fish.
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The older I get, the better I was.
Woodsey
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 15846
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #268 on:
October 08, 2014, 01:23:01 AM »
Quote from: RED-DOG on October 08, 2014, 01:16:07 AM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 08, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker
we don't tell the fish he is a fish.
Fuck me James, which card rooms have you been playing in? Everywhere I go they fall over each other to tell me I am a fish.
lol in before me
Logged
Royal Flush
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 22975
Booooccccceeeeeee
Re: Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings
«
Reply #269 on:
October 08, 2014, 01:29:19 AM »
Quote from: RED-DOG on October 08, 2014, 01:16:07 AM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 08, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Quote from: cambridgealex on October 07, 2014, 11:47:23 PM
Quote from: Royal Flush on October 07, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
This is the thing, none of us know the law. It would be like someone else coming on here and arguing the finer points of a PHA hand whilst all the while not knowing if a flush beats a straight.
Smurf raises a good point, what if a fish in a regular poker game did this to us? Is that ok seeing as we usually win and now he's biting back?
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Obviously not, ridiculous comparison.
Why is it a ridiculous comparison? Other than in baccarat the casino tells us the exact chance of us winning where is in poker
we don't tell the fish he is a fish.
Fuck me James, which card rooms have you been playing in? Everywhere I go they fall over each other to tell me I am a fish.
Come to Brighton, we will make you feel welcome.
You will have to buy your own dinner though
Logged
[19:44:40] Oracle: WE'RE ALL GOING ON A SPANISH HOLIDAY! TRIGGS STABLES SHIT!
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