Jimmy Saville

[david3103]

How many common or garden, non famous people are guilty?

Banging up a few celebs is like removing a dog turd from the steps of Buckingham Palace. It looks like you're doing a good job, but there are thousands more in the bushes.

Had a guy worked for us for a year or two, seemed a decent enough type, reliable, got the job done, deliveries made, PoD's signed collections collected.
Then one day I get a call from a client to ask if I know much about him and the suggestion that I google him
Him and his brother had been convicted of possessing child pornography. Some pretty extreme stuff too.
You just can't tell.

I do think the celebrity thing has an added factor of abuse of position though, as would a teacher or a priest so I think yes, we should chase the thousands in the bushes, but just as celebrity endorsement of a charity or a product carries weight, so too does the prosecution of a celebrity when they transgress.

[DungBeetle]

"The amount of rape and sexual offences reported compared to committed is shocking"

To be devil's advocate how can you make this statement?  To do this you have to assume when anything is not reported then the guy is guilty.  And how can you get numbers for non reported crimes?

Not saying it isn't true, but it's impossible to make this as a statement and have it hold any water.

[mulhuzz]

"The amount of rape and sexual offences reported compared to committed is shocking"

To be devil's advocate how can you make this statement?  To do this you have to assume when anything is not reported then the guy is guilty.  And how can you get numbers for non reported crimes?

Not saying it isn't true, but it's impossible to make this as a statement and have it hold any water.

you definitely can say it, in fact there are whole books in criminology devoted to just this topic. This is pretty old but a 'classic', I suppose: http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Understanding_Crime_Data.html?id=pWV5QgAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

[TommyD]

"The amount of rape and sexual offences reported compared to committed is shocking"

To be devil's advocate how can you make this statement?  To do this you have to assume when anything is not reported then the guy is guilty.  And how can you get numbers for non reported crimes?

Not saying it isn't true, but it's impossible to make this as a statement and have it hold any water.

Fair comment.  I'll try to find the relevant documents and reports online later on to back my statement up.

There are three key areas.  Offences committed, offences reported and offences convicted.

Numbers from non reported crimes come from reports from Crisis centres and other non-police organisations who deal with helping the victims of sexual crime while not having the power or authority to make the victims report the crime.  This may also be the case for hospitals and health care professionals treating Adults (I'm not 100% on this but I believe they cannot act without the victim's consent if the person is of Adult age and not likely to injure themselves or others).  Like I said before, I will try to find the hard facts on these later on.

We do have records of reported compared to convicted.  I've had a brief look through the Home Office website but nothing obvious has sprung to view just now.  Will do a proper look later.

For now here's an article from the BBC written in 2008:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2008/07/rape_a_complex_crime.html

And here's the quote from Wiki which referenced the above source material, for those who just want the key point.


'Of women aged 16 to 59 in England & Wales interviewed for the 2006/07 British Crime Survey, 0.5% (1 in every 200) reported that they had suffered rape or attempted rape in the previous year, equating to approximately 85,000 nationally. In the same year, less than 800 persons were convicted of rape'

Taken from the 'Sexual offences in the United Kingdom' page on Wikipedia

[outragous76]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

[kinboshi]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

It was covered up.  The church didn't report the offences to the police, moved priests on to other areas, paid off the victims to remain silent, etc.

Institutionalised evil.

[RED-DOG]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

God knows.

[mulhuzz]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

it appears being a man of God is greater protection than being an old celebrity.

[david3103]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

it appears being a man of God is greater protection than being an old celebrity.

In the US alone there were 4,392 allegations between 1950-2002, and many more since.

http://bishop-accountability.org/member/index.jsp

Remember though, that allegations of abuse are easy to make and can be spurious. One of the children at my wife's school has been heard to threaten to accuse some of her male colleagues simply to gain leverage in a dispute.

[The Camel]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

it appears being a man of God is greater protection than being an old celebrity.

In the US alone there were 4,392 allegations between 1950-2002, and many more since.

http://bishop-accountability.org/member/index.jsp

Remember though, that allegations of abuse are easy to make and can be spurious. One of the children at my wife's school has been heard to threaten to accuse some of her male colleagues simply to gain leverage in a dispute.

My Dad was stuck in a traffic jam on the way home from work about 20 years ago.

A girl aged maybe 14 or 15 just opened his passenger seat door and got in.

Said if he didn't give her £20 she'd go to the police and say he raped her.

Obviously he said no, and she got out and tried her luck with another unsuspecting driver.

[AdamM]

some interesting (and saddening) rape data
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rape-a-lack-of-conviction/

[mulhuzz]

So can someone remind me why all those priests and other "holy men" got away with it please?

it appears being a man of God is greater protection than being an old celebrity.

In the US alone there were 4,392 allegations between 1950-2002, and many more since.

http://bishop-accountability.org/member/index.jsp

Remember though, that allegations of abuse are easy to make and can be spurious. One of the children at my wife's school has been heard to threaten to accuse some of her male colleagues simply to gain leverage in a dispute.

i'd wager there are more men of God than celebs though

[TommyD]

some interesting (and saddening) rape data
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rape-a-lack-of-conviction/

Great find and very interesting website.  I think this'll do for the supporting data I mentioned before.

[kinboshi]

Interesting that the Stuart Hall case wasn't an old allegation being reinvestigated, but one kicked off by a letter written by one of the abused after the publicity of the Jimmy Savile case.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/how-i-exposed-stuart-halls-abuse-yasmin-alibhaibrown-on-the-letter-that-kickstarted-the-sex-assault-investigation-8601517.html

[kinboshi]

West Yorkshire Police investigate themselves, and find no wrongdoing...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/may/10/jimmy-savile-police-report

Really?