PLO Live DTD

[ruud]

DTD Live midweek, £1/£1.

Gonna be as honest as possible as I think I had a murderous session, didn't play well at all, and this hand has been bugging me. Would like to play all elements of the hand through if possible please.

I think the history is relevant, so I will give a quick summary:

We are losing. We donked off a good £40 playing holdem before the Omaha table opened.

We go to the Omaha table and seem to make a lot of second best hands. Flopped top set, got it in, guy turns flush.
Paid off nut flush with king flush when no other hand made sense. Annoyed cos I normally make these folds correctly.

Got AA, basically turned my hand face up, had to fold to a turn bet from Tina on   , she had   .
Also raised with KKQQ and saw an AJ7 flop and faced aggression so folded.

We have £105 at the start of the hand. 8 handed,  we are in the hijack.
Two limpers (one of whom is Tina) to us and we are dealt  

we limp along.
Folds to BB who raises to 5.
Both limpers (who have played lots of hands) call.

We???

[SuuPRlim]

call now but 100% raise pre-flop imo

there is nothing overly WRONG per se with limping but you've got a hand that is often going to flop draws and sharp equity so lower SPR allows you to play those type of flopped hand better and easier (basically you can just pot when you like the flop enough to go with it and get to realise your equity)

[ruud]

call now but 100% raise pre-flop imo

there is nothing overly WRONG per se with limping but you've got a hand that is often going to flop draws and sharp equity so lower SPR allows you to play those type of flopped hand better and easier (basically you can just pot when you like the flop enough to go with it and get to realise your equity)

thoughts on 3-betting now Dave? Feel very unlikely to get 4bet and can then get it in when I flop any equity

[SuuPRlim]

I don't like it really, would you really limp behind ACES after 2 limps and your stack? Maybe but would be very bad Aces,  for example is a pretty junky ish ACES but you'd still be loving life potting it IP over two limpers.

I think AKQ*/AKds/AQQ/KK** hands are going to find it so easy to just be all-in against you here and you don't do great against those hands, now you're IP pot will be £25 and you have £100 back it's actually a pretty decent spot for you hand it's basically going to take 2 bets to get all the money in. Also you raise now to £25 you could easily pick up all three callers and then it's just the same spot but you have to stack off way way wider.

Lets not forget aswel he's raised over 3 limpers (all of whom WILL call his raise) OOp so he prolly has a very good hand here PF. I think opening and calling a three-bet if he were to 3bet is a far superior play to limp/3betting with these cards.

[ruud]

Thanks for that Dave. I called so we go three way to a flop of     

SB leads for 17, Tina has a think and then calls.

We???

My read here is that the SB has a big hand pre, but very unsure of Tina. Would expect her to raise with a set here due to wettish board.

Fold? Call? Shove?

[Tal]

Bear with me as I'm not very good at this game...

Is there a hand we are happy to see if someone calls our shove?   AXcc, 9TJ, 99 - do these all call? Is there anything else that would?

[BangBang]

Don't flat call, raise or fold.  You're playing a short stack and if you call the £17 in a three way pot you're pretty much committing to your draws, it's unlikely you'll get called if any of your draws come in anyway unless your beat so I would say get you money in.

[BangBang]

Bear with me as I'm not very good at this game...

Is there a hand we are happy to see if someone calls our shove?   AXcc, 9TJ, 99 - do these all call? Is there anything else that would?

I think it's a matter of the hands that you don't want to see, like  or  hands that give us only a few outs.. other hands like 99xx 88xx 22xx have you crushed but you still have plenty of outs against..

[SuuPRlim]

go all in!!!!

Folding would be insane. We've flopped "it" as it were. Hopefully tina and the other player are deep as well as this gives you way more fold equity against player 1 and tina will be forced to call off with any pair +fd and you should be nicely ahead of her range.

[SuuPRlim]

we can get called and be in really good shape here fwiw.

[ruud]

They were both sat pretty deep (maybe 200) but unsure how if we get called we can be in that good a shape? Especially if BOTH CALL?!

[BangBang]

They were both sat pretty deep (maybe 200) but unsure how if we get called we can be in that good a shape? Especially if BOTH CALL?!

If they both have sets your odds on favorite to win, if one has AA?? and the other has a set you still have good odds to win.. Both hands will call, even dry Aces..

[SuuPRlim]

They were both sat pretty deep (maybe 200) but unsure how if we get called we can be in that good a shape? Especially if BOTH CALL?!

If they both call, then you're very likely up against the NFD, which is a shame but not the end of the world.

Im not altogether sure what you're asking here? Surely you're not considering folding? Going all-in is a way better play than calling just because it cleans up some of your equity if you can get it heads up, the NFd is never folding ofc but usually on this texture your striaght outs aren't often exclusive 3 way but should be able to get a lot of or 9's with straight draws to fold.

So given that jamming is better than calling and folding is (imo) totally out of the question shipping it in really is your only play here.

You're still 45% against AA's with clubs....

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.2 Professional)
Omaha Hi, Generic syntax
Board -
PLAYER_1 AA**:cc
PLAYER_2 K8T7:cc
1933438 trials (randomized)


All-in Equity

	Equity %	Wins Hi %	Ties Hi %	Wins Hi Count	Ties Hi Count
AA**:cc	53.9804%	53.8733%	0.2143%	1041606	4144
K8T7:cc	46.0196%	45.9124%	0.2143%	887688	4144

[ruud]

Thanks Dave.

I did indeed ship it in. Went call call behind me.

Turn 

check check

River 

SB bets pot, Tina folds nut flush draw face up. SB had 99 for house, though I made my straight on the end 

Good to see I didn't in fact play all that horribly and was just one of those nights. One of my biggest losers for a long while tho overall for the night still!

[SuuPRlim]

nah you played it fine.

Raise PF and call the 3bet (if the guy does indeed 3bet) but you're always stacking off on this flop anyways with your stack so think nothing of it, ul.