Whats our line, Deepstack 10/25c PLO

[Derbylad]

PokerStars Zoom Hand #91984352977:  Omaha Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2013/01/07 22:55:16 WET [2013/01/07 17:55:16 ET]
Table 'Thyestes' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Procyon10 ($71.37 in chips)
Seat 2: GHolden7 ($106.88 in chips)
Seat 3: zenitsucks ($17.81 in chips)
Seat 4: TruliLud ($86.70 in chips)
Seat 5: Knobrot69 ($21.15 in chips)
Seat 6: droxi21 ($93.89 in chips)
GHolden7: posts small blind $0.10
zenitsucks: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GHolden7 [ ]
TruliLud: folds
Knobrot69: folds
droxi21: raises $0.35 to $0.60
Procyon10: folds
GHolden7: raises $1.15 to $1.75
zenitsucks: folds
droxi21: calls $1.15
*** FLOP *** [ ]
GHolden7: bets $2
droxi21: raises $2.70 to $4.70
GHolden7: calls $2.70
*** TURN *** [ ] []
GHolden7:

[SuuPRlim]

you have to c-bet bigger on these board textures as the pre-flop 3better, pots $3.75 I'd be betting AT LEAST $3, although I'd prolly just bet $3.25 and fold if he raises.

Either way we defo need to fold to the flop raise, OOP and deepstacked with a very bad hand, 100% fold.

As played I think check/calling is your only play, he can have KK and K9 (although I'd be surprised to see KK from his sizing on the flop but you never know) which makes betting or checking for value almost impossible, you now have much much better equity against his semi-bluffs than we did previously in the hand.

Id check....ummm, arrr and have a guess what to do on most river cards. problem is our hand looks like AA so he's repping a better hand than AA - if you think about it on an offsuit brick river caard our hand is pretty much the same as AA so it's really hard to know how much we need to be calling OTR once we c/call the turn - I know instinctively I wanna fold nearly always.

Fold the flop though, save yourself from these spots.

[BangBang]

Check fold..

Should have folded the flop, Droxi could have a two pair with a flush draw, K9, KK, your hand is only a bluff catcher, only thing you beating is a missed flush draw and the kicker to your 9 is pretty weak..

Fold...

Tonight at the Vic if you're around... ?

[tikay]

you have to c-bet bigger on these board textures as the pre-flop 3better, pots $3.75 I'd be betting AT LEAST $3, although I'd prolly just bet $3.25 and fold if he raises.

Either way we defo need to fold to the flop raise, OOP and deepstacked with a very bad hand, 100% fold.

As played I think check/calling is your only play, he can have KK and K9 (although I'd be surprised to see KK from his sizing on the flop but you never know) which makes betting or checking for value almost impossible, you now have much much better equity against his semi-bluffs than we did previously in the hand.

Id check....ummm, arrr and have a guess what to do on most river cards. problem is our hand looks like AA so he's repping a better hand than AA - if you think about it on an offsuit brick river caard our hand is pretty much the same as AA so it's really hard to know how much we need to be calling OTR once we c/call the turn - I know instinctively I wanna fold nearly always.

Fold the flop though, save yourself from these spots.

Dave,

Can you elaborate for me please on why that hand is so bad on that flop?

I know we don't want to see a club, or a Q or 10, but we can get off if either arrive, or a pair up comes.

I'm assuming we are not thinking the 9 is any good - that is a bin job on its own, we are continuing exclusively for the wrap to get home - but there are a lot of turns we like too, no?

Have to say, I'd be quite keen to continue as long as the pot does not get too bloated. Wrongly, no doubt, knowing my mad skills.....

You also suggest a fold pre.

If I can get in to a single raise, I rarely pass rundowns pre, though I prefer them to be from the 7 or 8 up, 6 is a tad low.

Do a Rory Breaker please.

Now, you may enlighten me......

[tikay]

I sense a LONG lecture from Stu is incoming, correcting me to the error of my ways.......

[SuuPRlim]

Hello tikay!

You also suggest a fold pre.

I don't believe I did! If you can quote me saying I think we shoudl fold pre I'd be very surprised. Pre-flop is played well, 3betting pre-flop is way way better than calling. I think calling is a pretty weak play pre-flop OOP.

Dave,

Can you elaborate for me please on why that hand is so bad on that flop?

I know we don't want to see a club, or a Q or 10, but we can get off if either arrive, or a pair up comes.

I'm assuming we are not thinking the 9 is any good - that is a bin job on its own, we are continuing exclusively for the wrap to get home - but there are a lot of turns we like too, no?

Have to say, I'd be quite keen to continue as long as the pot does not get too bloated. Wrongly, no doubt, knowing my mad skills.....

The problem we have OTF is that 1) we're OOP, 2) we're very deep and 3) we're drawing pretty rough to a venerable hand.

The only actually good card for us on the turn is an offsuit 6, lets say we turn the what's our play? We're going to lead into him for pot (~$12.50) he calls pot is now $37.50 and we have $75 back, what are we going to do on a club/diamond/8/T/Q/J/K/9/5 (thats coming up for 3/4 of the deck) not only have we put ourselves in this yucky spot but we've DRAWN to be there - we're gonna get value-bet vs nicely, we're gonna get bluffed a bit we'll be playing guessing games a lot of the time.

IP this is totally different as we can bet the turn is he checks we'll have a much easier river decision nearly always.

Just not a good spot, even pretty weak players can put you in horrible spots deepstacked and OOP

I think we do have to call the turn now though as played - as it's tough to have too many better hands than this and.

[tikay]

Apologies, I read "fold the flop" as "fold pre-flop".

I think the key thing I missed is the fact we are OOP though. Position is so so important in O, much more so (imo) than in Hold Em.  

The 9 on the Turn was NOT the card I'd be hoping for, for sure, I much prefer the strsaight to fill, obv.

[SuuPRlim]

Apologies, I read "fold the flop" as "fold pre-flop".

I think the key thing I missed is the fact we are OOP though. Position is so so important in O, much more so (imo) than in Hold Em.  

The 9 on the Turn was NOT the card I'd be hoping for, for sure, I much prefer the strsaight to fill, obv.

yes, you're right, its so hard to play OOP in PLO, even against weak players.

[Derbylad]

Only just saw this had picked up steam, I check / called the turn to a 60% bet and the river was , still check call river right?

[SuuPRlim]

Only just saw this had picked up steam, I check / called the turn to a 60% bet and the river was , still check call river right?

your hand hasnt actually changed.... it's still a horrible guessing games spot. hopefully it goes chk chk and you can win.

if you're gonna call some/fold some then it makes sense to randomise your river calling frequency to the times you make a full house even though in terms of relative value your hand is pretty much the same as on the flop.