Markup??

[david3103]

Given that pretty much 100% of staking proposals include the 'juice' there's already an implied mark up if ROI comparisons are being made.
Selling 10% of a DTD £300 at £33.60 is selling the prize pool at 1.12

This is a good point and one I'd considered myself. I think in general though we all accept the reg fee to be part of the tournament buyin.

Personally I think charging for expenses is ok in certain situations. I generally don't bother due to arguments it'd cause but say I decide to go play the DTD £300. I can either drive home and not get much sleep or book a hotel and get a decent nights sleep. It's in my interest and the backer's interest for me to get the hotel. Let's say the hotel is £50 then the overal cost is:

£300 entry
£36 juice
£50 hotel
= £386

So 10% here would be £38.60 - a markup of 1.286. Given any backers are going to get an equal share with me of any prize money then I think it fair this expense is included in the package - otherwise the tournament is more profitable for the backer than it is for me, and that's not even including the effort required by the player.

The difference for me comes down to "would that expense be incurred anyway?". So food/drink etc I'd never dream of including. But in my case I wouldn't play the tournament if I didn't get the staking. So it's not like i'd be paying the £50 regardless. So in that sense I think it's fair to include it in the cost of the tournament.

One final point is my staking requests are few and far between and are generally one offs. If I ask for staking it's because I want to play a tournament and am seeking financial help to do so. In this instance I'm more inclined to write off the expense as the staking is allowing me to play a tournament I'd otherwise not get to play.

fyp

So if you sold action in the Aussie Million would you add the cost of airfare?

[Cf]

Given that pretty much 100% of staking proposals include the 'juice' there's already an implied mark up if ROI comparisons are being made.
Selling 10% of a DTD £300 at £33.60 is selling the prize pool at 1.12

This is a good point and one I'd considered myself. I think in general though we all accept the reg fee to be part of the tournament buyin.

Personally I think charging for expenses is ok in certain situations. I generally don't bother due to arguments it'd cause but say I decide to go play the DTD £300. I can either drive home and not get much sleep or book a hotel and get a decent nights sleep. It's in my interest and the backer's interest for me to get the hotel. Let's say the hotel is £50 then the overal cost is:

£300 entry
£36 juice
£50 hotel
= £386

So 10% here would be £38.60 - a markup of 1.286. Given any backers are going to get an equal share with me of any prize money then I think it fair this expense is included in the package - otherwise the tournament is more profitable for the backer than it is for me, and that's not even including the effort required by the player.

The difference for me comes down to "would that expense be incurred anyway?". So food/drink etc I'd never dream of including. But in my case I wouldn't play the tournament if I didn't get the staking. So it's not like i'd be paying the £50 regardless. So in that sense I think it's fair to include it in the cost of the tournament.

One final point is my staking requests are few and far between and are generally one offs. If I ask for staking it's because I want to play a tournament and am seeking financial help to do so. In this instance I'm more inclined to write off the expense as the staking is allowing me to play a tournament I'd otherwise not get to play.

fyp

So if you sold action in the Aussie Million would you add the cost of airfare?

It depends.

If some comes up and says to me: "I want you to go and play the Aussie Millions and I'll stake you" then yes I would expect to have air fare/hotel covered in the price.

If whilst over there I decide to play a side event then I would not include the expenses as I am there anyway and besides they've been paid for elsewhere.

[SuuPRlim]

You can go back pages in this thread and someone mentioned about Daniel Morgan being able to sell his package at 1.6, because it's a 'soft' field and full of businessmen, etc. But everyone else who I can remember was selling at max 1.3 & are far better players.

Dan (at the time) was one of the biggest contributors to the PHA board and really active in improving blonde, I think, in a community like blonde that should be taken into account as well, Dan had put a lot of time into improving and helping people on Blonde and as a result can justify a bit of a premium on his packages, imo.

1.6 Really wasn't that ridic at all (as it happened other people were selling lower which meant SLIGHTLY better value was available prolly) but that doesn't make the proposition a "losing one" by any stretch. In fact i could prolly come up with at least 5 way worse offers than that in the last 12 months but obviously im not going to.

[smashedagain]

You can go back pages in this thread and someone mentioned about Daniel Morgan being able to sell his package at 1.6, because it's a 'soft' field and full of businessmen, etc. But everyone else who I can remember was selling at max 1.3 & are far better players.

Dan (at the time) was one of the biggest contributors to the PHA board and really active in improving blonde, I think, in a community like blonde that should be taken into account as well, Dan had put a lot of time into improving and helping people on Blonde and as a result can justify a bit of a premium on his packages, imo.

1.6 Really wasn't that ridic at all (as it happened other people were selling lower which meant SLIGHTLY better value was available prolly) but that doesn't make the proposition a "losing one" by any stretch. In fact i could prolly come up with at least 5 way worse offers than that in the last 12 months but obviously im not going to.

did he get the 1.6? I definatly think contribution to blonde is far more important than roi. If people where prepared to 1.6 then that's upto them.

John why are you asking about markup? Do you want an honest assessment of what people think you are worth or what you could honestly charge and sell out.

[I KNOW IT]

Just remember if in doubt you could always take advantage of the good natured community spirit on here and run an auction, fuck the rest take as much money as you can....

VWP

[pleno1]

I am not sure if it is sometimes supply and demand? I am sure there are a few members on here that have took a % in someone as just a punt rather than considering the mark up they have advertised at.

You can go back pages in this thread and someone mentioned about Daniel Morgan being able to sell his package at 1.6, because it's a 'soft' field and full of businessmen, etc. But everyone else who I can remember was selling at max 1.3 & are far better players. I think some people actually keep on adding to their mark up as they think about it even more, by thinking "I think I am 1.15, but I'll round it upto 1.2"

There isn't many people in the staking boards who are anywhere near the mark up they are selling at. The only who is perhaps close is Alex & fair play to him.

As for John Black, I try to keep up with most diaries on here, but everytime I read his diary it is a HH from a live cash game, no mark up needed imo.

I sell now and again and always at a very decent rate.

How do you know how good dan is and what makes you the guy to judge? Because e doesn't have a big hendon mob? There's people I speak to every day that have 0 hendon mov scores that I would pay 1.5 in the main

if you had not lost your debit card again

i have good credit!

[jgcblack]

You can go back pages in this thread and someone mentioned about Daniel Morgan being able to sell his package at 1.6, because it's a 'soft' field and full of businessmen, etc. But everyone else who I can remember was selling at max 1.3 & are far better players.

Dan (at the time) was one of the biggest contributors to the PHA board and really active in improving blonde, I think, in a community like blonde that should be taken into account as well, Dan had put a lot of time into improving and helping people on Blonde and as a result can justify a bit of a premium on his packages, imo.

1.6 Really wasn't that ridic at all (as it happened other people were selling lower which meant SLIGHTLY better value was available prolly) but that doesn't make the proposition a "losing one" by any stretch. In fact i could prolly come up with at least 5 way worse offers than that in the last 12 months but obviously im not going to.

did he get the 1.6? I definatly think contribution to blonde is far more important than roi. If people where prepared to 1.6 then that's upto them.

John why are you asking about markup? Do you want an honest assessment of what people think you are worth or what you could honestly charge and sell out.

Neither tbh.. If I wanted a truthful answer of what im worth there are at least 5 people ITT I trust to give me their best opinions, each is a better player and all are more experienced.

This thread is because I dont understand how to calculate  markup.. For anyone in any tournament/ game.

I am at the same time considering my 'year' this year and what where and how I can play some events/ stops.  I have a lot of leave and want to structure it all better.

Thanks David, I agree Bobba, and nh flushy..

[pleno1]

you've been told alot of times, you should sell at 1.0, but you can sell at 1.2.

[T8MML]

I am not sure if it is sometimes supply and demand? I am sure there are a few members on here that have took a % in someone as just a punt rather than considering the mark up they have advertised at.

You can go back pages in this thread and someone mentioned about Daniel Morgan being able to sell his package at 1.6, because it's a 'soft' field and full of businessmen, etc. But everyone else who I can remember was selling at max 1.3 & are far better players. I think some people actually keep on adding to their mark up as they think about it even more, by thinking "I think I am 1.15, but I'll round it upto 1.2"

There isn't many people in the staking boards who are anywhere near the mark up they are selling at. The only who is perhaps close is Alex & fair play to him.

As for John Black, I try to keep up with most diaries on here, but everytime I read his diary it is a HH from a live cash game, no mark up needed imo.

I sell now and again and always at a very decent rate.

Is this a level?

Dan is a very good player, with a very good poker "brain" who I have played with quite a few times. If he sold for 1.6 then FairPlay to him if he got it.

Your comment "I sell now and again at a very decent rate" . Who gets the decent rate, you or the buyer?

[Eso Kral]

Just my 2penneth for JB

I have probably in terms of number of live MTT's sold the most over the past year and have tended to package them together and class myself as a slightly above average rec player who has built up an element of trust on here over the past couple of years and have never found it an issue selling but when I have sold have always sold at spot. The past few months have sold for 23 tournaments across 3 packages totalling £7545 and returned £12420 to investors but if and when I sold again would sell a spot.

You have aspirations to be a "pro" and are young enough with not many commitments and hopefully an ever improving skillset that will enable you at some point to do that, so in the meantime if I were you and obv only imho I would sell at spot and if and when you have had a decent bink then maybe you can justify a markup.

For me I always appreciate the backing and as they are always events grouped together that I want to play and could never justify playing circa £2500 of live tournies over a 5-6weeks period am happy to swallow the ex's myself.

Pads is 100% right you could sell at 1.2 but should at 1%

[outragous76]

I bought in dan Morgan because I really like him. As a one off punt I couldn't care about analysing his exact value.

He has helped me several times in the past and given his time and advice freely

As it happens I also like his game and thought he had a reasonable shot at a return. I should also point out, I didn't care if he didn't return, and would loved it if he did

I'm not a pro poker player, I don't live my life by EV decisions (because you can't measure it).

I was delighted to invest in dan, did I think he ripped me off? Obv not, otherwise I wouldn't invest

Surely people make up their own minds and why and who they buy and at what premium

[outragous76]

If jb is trading in an open and free maket and COULD sell at 1.2, why SHOULD he sell at 1.0?

Not many economists would agree with you there

[action man]

Just remember if in doubt you could always take advantage of the good natured community spirit on here and run an auction, fuck the rest take as much money as you can....

<3 flushy.

[claypole]

Just my 2penneth for JB

I have probably in terms of number of live MTT's sold the most over the past year and have tended to package them together and class myself as a slightly above average rec player who has built up an element of trust on here over the past couple of years and have never found it an issue selling but when I have sold have always sold at spot. The past few months have sold for 23 tournaments across 3 packages totalling £7545 and returned £12420 to investors but if and when I sold again would sell a spot.

You have aspirations to be a "pro" and are young enough with not many commitments and hopefully an ever improving skillset that will enable you at some point to do that, so in the meantime if I were you and obv only imho I would sell at spot and if and when you have had a decent bink then maybe you can justify a markup.

For me I always appreciate the backing and as they are always events grouped together that I want to play and could never justify playing circa £2500 of live tournies over a 5-6weeks period am happy to swallow the ex's myself.

Pads is 100% right you could sell at 1.2 but should at 1%

Thin.....and all of what the Eso man says.  I sold at spot for an age, still do if I feel I need it to play but want to and it's just variance reducing. I will sometimes sell at a mark up of 1.1-1.2 max - it's tourne and staker dependant. 

[outragous76]

Let's say jb takes the advice of lots of respected posters and sells at 1.0, and everyone who said he should sell at 1.0 then buys a piece?

Have they not just manipulated the market in their favour?