Through the streets vs JP in St.Kitts

[Honeybadger]

JP's river fold with K5s is him trying to 'exploit you' by using his read (whether it be a physical tell, a gut feeling, or just his perception of your range in this spot) to make a fold in a spot where he 'should' call in a vacuum.

If it turns out he was right to make the fold then he has outplayed you, although it is always possible that he has just made a lucky guess with the fold and randomly been correct this time. If it turns out that he was wrong to make the fold then you have outplayed him, although it is always possible that you have just made a lucky guess with your bluff and randomly got away with it this time.

[Eso Kral]

^^ when you and Dave were discussing who was exploiting who it was great as I knew the result and understood all u guys posted.

I really felt I missed some value with my hand by chk raising the turn as this particular part of the play alerted JP to the fact I had a hand but I felt it the only play that theoretically enabled us to play for stacks ott or river.

I missed a bet by betting the river as JP 100% bets the river as played if I chk and probs calls off being pot stuck?

For Doobs I had 88 in this hand for turned house but felt like I missed 1street.

Thx for all input guys
<3 Blonde!!

[Doobs]

His kicker was a 2? 

[Doobs]

Just for interest, what other turn cards are you going to call the turn bet, and are there any other cards you check raise (eg 6 or 7)?

and just for interest did he act like this when he found out you had 88?

[SuuPRlim]

I'm really confused lol. It's a way different situation when it's the other way round!! the HH defo felt weird

It looks like a spot where i'v realised we're beat and trying to look really sick I'm unlikely to have folded in game (if it was as you said it was) but completely ruling out folding was defo a mistake everyone was making - speshly saying readless folding would be terrible, defo more likely to be good readless.

As it plays I think JPs thought process will have gone "he's very rarely bluffing and very rarely VB'ing worse" as simple as it is, and it's prolly true here.

[Honeybadger]

Nah, I still think calling on the river is the best vacuum play with no reads. And I definitely think there is no justification at all for folding on the turn vs the min c/r as you (half) suggested.

Obviously any line can be justified based on a read though; whether it be a ninja spidey sense thing or just an opinion on how the majority of players are going to act in a particular spot. If the thought process you suggested JP would have had is accurate ("he's very rarely bluffing and very rarely value betting worse") then that is a read-based adjustment.

[Honeybadger]

Also... Rich, with all the switcherooing has it actually been made clear what JP's full hand was? i.e. did he fold K5 face-up, or did he just fold a 5 face up and you have fabricated the K for the sake of the switcheroo?

It does sort of make a difference whether hero has K5 or 52...

[Eso Kral]

^^ will come back to all points after the weekend

[Doobs]

Also... Rich, with all the switcherooing has it actually been made clear what JP's full hand was? i.e. did he fold K5 face-up, or did he just fold a 5 face up and you have fabricated the K for the sake of the switcheroo?

It does sort of make a difference whether hero has K5 or 52...

That is what I was hinting at.  It is easier to fold 52 than k5, because his value range could include the likes of 57 and 56.  It feels like that could be enough to tip the scale for me.

[SuuPRlim]

Nah, I still think calling on the river is the best vacuum play with no reads. And I definitely think there is no justification at all for folding on the turn vs the min c/r as you (half) suggested.

You can apply all the theory you like to a spot, but play this one out in a tournament 200 times and I bet you just run into it a high %. People just don't bluff here all that much - that's just what my gut tells me

[cambridgealex]

Just for interest, what other turn cards are you going to call the turn bet, and are there any other cards you check raise (eg 6 or 7)?

and just for interest did he act like this when he found out you had 88?

God how bad does Vanessa come across there?

[bobAlike]

Just for interest, what other turn cards are you going to call the turn bet, and are there any other cards you check raise (eg 6 or 7)?

and just for interest did he act like this when he found out you had 88?

God how bad does Vanessa come across there?

Yeah, she looks like a bloke.

[Doobs]

I doubt she is trying to attract you.

[bobAlike]

I'm under no illusion that she is.

[PaintingByNumbers]

You should see bob's videos.