Like Sport, Love Winners - Bettingemporium.com

[horseplayer]

Would be interested to hear some more details on this. I once dipped my toe into the tipping world and it is a very difficult thing to get right.  Anyone can tip darts winners with Skybet or horses with Stan James but that doesn't really provide any kind of a service in terms of delivering financial gains to the clientele and, of course, tipping winners at Betfair prices or Asian market prices is much harder and whilst do-able will never provide headline grabbing ROI figures.  Also the best way to grow a bank is to have a LOT of bets but tipster clients tend not to like too many bets.......Good luck with it and I actually do subscribe to a few services myself so if you could provide more details I might be ionterested if it suits the profile I am looking for.

agree with all of this

A few reasons why it is difficult even if you are profitable (which i am sure this site has and will continue to be)

Any tipping service will attract a large percentage of punters who bet regularly on anything and are used to losing.

Even when providing winners the client will most likely in my experience still be betting and probably losing with there own bets.

Client will fairly quickly decide can do without the winners you are providing in exchange for being able to afford a few more random punts.

I ran a very small football tipping service 8 or so years ago. I gave up after a year despite a good record due to constant abusive emails after a loser. The benefit unless you have a massive advertising budget and a constant stream of clients is very negligible in my opinion.

[adnmdv]

I notice the website is claiming a 60% strike rate and has been profitable for 4 successive years. What is the average price taken? A 60% strike rate isn't much use if you are betting 1/2 shots. What is the ROI? Stating that you have been profitable is a bit vague. Also, is this record verified by anyone or a list of past bets viewable?

Thank you for showing an interest in Bettingemporium.com. As you are such a well established poster I am of course happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.  

At the moment the website is just a single page. Once the site itself is launched all selections, Betfair prices and historic bets will be on the site. Up until now only a very select few have had access to selections. We are going to change that. Even though it has been profitable in the past there is no guarantee that it will be profitable in the future.

The football over 2.5 bets will be on the site when it launches fully but that is only a small part of it. There are lots of plans and ideas that will be brought in over time. We are quite excited by it.

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Will you be surfacing your selections versus the closing line where possible? At that sort of sample size, ROI isn't a particularly accurate measure of success. Your website says you've been profitable in that market for 4yrs, is the 60% strike-rate/13% ROI within that same sample? How profitable would you expect to be going forward?

Can you also clarify what you mean by 'average Betfair prices' - do you simply mean the ave. odds you are getting matched at or something else?

edit: Also interested in the answer to RWilson's question below. Admittedly I'm just guessing as to the size of the tipster market but I'd always assumed that in general, it would be more profitable to bet your own selections in bigger size/commit more time to betting that market if it's something as big as Premiership over/unders, rather than spending time+money on a tipster service.

[pleno1]

sorry if ive missed this, but how are you monetizing this?

[redarmi]

sorry if ive missed this, but how are you monetizing this?

Presumably by charging a subscription fee like all other tipsters?

[tikay]

sorry if ive missed this, but how are you monetizing this?

Presumably by charging a subscription fee like all other tipsters?

...and/or the Affiliate route.

[RWilson58]

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. If your betting is as profitable on Betfair as you suggest why would you start a tipping service?

[The Camel]

I notice the website is claiming a 60% strike rate and has been profitable for 4 successive years. What is the average price taken? A 60% strike rate isn't much use if you are betting 1/2 shots. What is the ROI? Stating that you have been profitable is a bit vague. Also, is this record verified by anyone or a list of past bets viewable?

Thank you for showing an interest in Bettingemporium.com. As you are such a well established poster I am of course happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.  

At the moment the website is just a single page. Once the site itself is launched all selections, Betfair prices and historic bets will be on the site. Up until now only a very select few have had access to selections. We are going to change that. Even though it has been profitable in the past there is no guarantee that it will be profitable in the future.

The football over 2.5 bets will be on the site when it launches fully but that is only a small part of it. There are lots of plans and ideas that will be brought in over time. We are quite excited by it.

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Will you be surfacing your selections versus the closing line where possible? At that sort of sample size, ROI isn't a particularly accurate measure of success. How profitable would you expect to be going forward?

Can you also clarify what you mean by 'average Betfair prices' - do you simply mean the ave. odds you are getting matched at or something else?

Welcome back to Blondepoker Mr Adnmdv.

[JoeBeevers]

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. If your betting is as profitable on Betfair as you suggest why would you start a tipping service?

I don't see these as mutually exclusive. 

[JoeBeevers]

I notice the website is claiming a 60% strike rate and has been profitable for 4 successive years. What is the average price taken? A 60% strike rate isn't much use if you are betting 1/2 shots. What is the ROI? Stating that you have been profitable is a bit vague. Also, is this record verified by anyone or a list of past bets viewable?

Thank you for showing an interest in Bettingemporium.com. As you are such a well established poster I am of course happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.  

At the moment the website is just a single page. Once the site itself is launched all selections, Betfair prices and historic bets will be on the site. Up until now only a very select few have had access to selections. We are going to change that. Even though it has been profitable in the past there is no guarantee that it will be profitable in the future.

The football over 2.5 bets will be on the site when it launches fully but that is only a small part of it. There are lots of plans and ideas that will be brought in over time. We are quite excited by it.

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Will you be surfacing your selections versus the closing line where possible? At that sort of sample size, ROI isn't a particularly accurate measure of success. Your website says you've been profitable in that market for 4yrs, is the 60% strike-rate/13% ROI within that same sample? How profitable would you expect to be going forward?

Can you also clarify what you mean by 'average Betfair prices' - do you simply mean the ave. odds you are getting matched at or something else?

edit: Also interested in the answer to RWilson's question below. Admittedly I'm just guessing as to the size of the tipster market but I'd always assumed that in general, it would be more profitable to bet your own selections in bigger size/commit more time to betting that market if it's something as big as Premiership over/unders, rather than spending time+money on a tipster service.

We will be posting our selections in good time before the events. Sometimes that may be on a Monday for the Saturday and sometimes on the Friday or even Saturday morning. The stats for each of the last four seasons are scarily similar. We would be happy if this continues.

'Average Betfair prices' are nothing to do with what bets we get. It is the average price each £1 has been matched at on that particular market - so all prices matched averaged by amounts matched at those prices. We obviously try to beat the average price and we often do.

The best price is not always on Betfair but we chose Betfair as it is easier to work with just one set of prices. Betfair are often the best price (after commission) but not always and sometimes we bet with bookmakers or other exchanges too.

The over bets, as I said previously, will only be a small part of what we are doing. As I replied to RWilson we don't see running this site and betting as mutually exclusive at all.

There are a number of reasons and benefits for this venture and not all are financial, there are personal reasons too.

[JoeBeevers]

sorry if ive missed this, but how are you monetizing this?

Initially we intend that everything will be free. Moving forward some will be free and there will be some things that users will have an option to subscribe to. There will also be various partnerships or affiliations.

[adnmdv]

Thanks for the reply.

To clarify though,

We will be posting our selections in good time before the events. Sometimes that may be on a Monday for the Saturday and sometimes on the Friday or even Saturday morning. The stats for each of the last four seasons are scarily similar. We would be happy if this continues.

'Average Betfair prices' are nothing to do with what bets we get. It is the average price each £1 has been matched at on that particular market - so all prices matched averaged by amounts matched at those prices. We obviously try to beat the average price and we often do.

Do you have historic records for the closing prices in Asia for your bets or just the p/l? Issue being that closing line is generally the better measure of performance than p/l until the sample gets very large and the average BF price will be a lot less efficient on average than the Asia closing line.

Sorry, but I am skeptical if you're suggesting you're beating Premiership ou markets for ~13% ROI consistently every season - that would probably elevate you guys above THE very best out there like Tony Bloom! Wouldn't that sort of record suggest you could also easily beat other leagues (given that the Premiership is one of the toughest) and make it trivially 'easy' to make so much money to dwarf anything you'd earn from a tipster service many times over? (although you say that it's not being setup purely for financial reasons)

The best price is not always on Betfair but we chose Betfair as it is easier to work with just one set of prices. Betfair are often the best price (after commission) but not always and sometimes we bet with bookmakers or other exchanges too.

Is this definitely the case (for these markets)? If individual bookies are betting to a 2.5% or so over-round and there's 3-4 different sets of Asia prices, it seems unlikely that Betfair will be often best price! Indeed if you look at the closing ou2.5 prices for the Premiership this past weekend, Betfair was never best price after 5% comm. Though, if anything, referring to Betfair prices would deflate your record.

[The Camel]

I notice the website is claiming a 60% strike rate and has been profitable for 4 successive years. What is the average price taken? A 60% strike rate isn't much use if you are betting 1/2 shots. What is the ROI? Stating that you have been profitable is a bit vague. Also, is this record verified by anyone or a list of past bets viewable?

Thank you for showing an interest in Bettingemporium.com. As you are such a well established poster I am of course happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.  

At the moment the website is just a single page. Once the site itself is launched all selections, Betfair prices and historic bets will be on the site. Up until now only a very select few have had access to selections. We are going to change that. Even though it has been profitable in the past there is no guarantee that it will be profitable in the future.

The football over 2.5 bets will be on the site when it launches fully but that is only a small part of it. There are lots of plans and ideas that will be brought in over time. We are quite excited by it.

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Will you be surfacing your selections versus the closing line where possible? At that sort of sample size, ROI isn't a particularly accurate measure of success. Your website says you've been profitable in that market for 4yrs, is the 60% strike-rate/13% ROI within that same sample? How profitable would you expect to be going forward?

Can you also clarify what you mean by 'average Betfair prices' - do you simply mean the ave. odds you are getting matched at or something else?

edit: Also interested in the answer to RWilson's question below. Admittedly I'm just guessing as to the size of the tipster market but I'd always assumed that in general, it would be more profitable to bet your own selections in bigger size/commit more time to betting that market if it's something as big as Premiership over/unders, rather than spending time+money on a tipster service.

We will be posting our selections in good time before the events. Sometimes that may be on a Monday for the Saturday and sometimes on the Friday or even Saturday morning. The stats for each of the last four seasons are scarily similar. We would be happy if this continues.

'Average Betfair prices' are nothing to do with what bets we get. It is the average price each £1 has been matched at on that particular market - so all prices matched averaged by amounts matched at those prices. We obviously try to beat the average price and we often do.

The best price is not always on Betfair but we chose Betfair as it is easier to work with just one set of prices. Betfair are often the best price (after commission) but not always and sometimes we bet with bookmakers or other exchanges too.

The over bets, as I said previously, will only be a small part of what we are doing. As I replied to RWilson we don't see running this site and betting as mutually exclusive at all.

There are a number of reasons and benefits for this venture and not all are financial, there are personal reasons too.

Hi Joe, must say I've never heard of "average Betfair price" before.

Isn't a better measure is closing Betfair price?

[JoeBeevers]

I notice the website is claiming a 60% strike rate and has been profitable for 4 successive years. What is the average price taken? A 60% strike rate isn't much use if you are betting 1/2 shots. What is the ROI? Stating that you have been profitable is a bit vague. Also, is this record verified by anyone or a list of past bets viewable?

Thank you for showing an interest in Bettingemporium.com. As you are such a well established poster I am of course happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.  

At the moment the website is just a single page. Once the site itself is launched all selections, Betfair prices and historic bets will be on the site. Up until now only a very select few have had access to selections. We are going to change that. Even though it has been profitable in the past there is no guarantee that it will be profitable in the future.

The football over 2.5 bets will be on the site when it launches fully but that is only a small part of it. There are lots of plans and ideas that will be brought in over time. We are quite excited by it.

I don't really want to post a load of figures on here (because I want you to come to the site to look at them all obviously   ) but so far this season (to Jan 20th) there have been 107 over 2.5 bets with 67 winners and at average Betfair prices and a 5% commission it is showing over £1400 profit to a level £100 stake and we are very happy with that. It's not sexy, no 10/1 winners here, it's a bit of boring number crunching but it has been profitable and we hope that it will continue to be.

Will you be surfacing your selections versus the closing line where possible? At that sort of sample size, ROI isn't a particularly accurate measure of success. Your website says you've been profitable in that market for 4yrs, is the 60% strike-rate/13% ROI within that same sample? How profitable would you expect to be going forward?

Can you also clarify what you mean by 'average Betfair prices' - do you simply mean the ave. odds you are getting matched at or something else?

edit: Also interested in the answer to RWilson's question below. Admittedly I'm just guessing as to the size of the tipster market but I'd always assumed that in general, it would be more profitable to bet your own selections in bigger size/commit more time to betting that market if it's something as big as Premiership over/unders, rather than spending time+money on a tipster service.

We will be posting our selections in good time before the events. Sometimes that may be on a Monday for the Saturday and sometimes on the Friday or even Saturday morning. The stats for each of the last four seasons are scarily similar. We would be happy if this continues.

'Average Betfair prices' are nothing to do with what bets we get. It is the average price each £1 has been matched at on that particular market - so all prices matched averaged by amounts matched at those prices. We obviously try to beat the average price and we often do.

The best price is not always on Betfair but we chose Betfair as it is easier to work with just one set of prices. Betfair are often the best price (after commission) but not always and sometimes we bet with bookmakers or other exchanges too.

The over bets, as I said previously, will only be a small part of what we are doing. As I replied to RWilson we don't see running this site and betting as mutually exclusive at all.

There are a number of reasons and benefits for this venture and not all are financial, there are personal reasons too.

Hi Joe, must say I've never heard of "average Betfair price" before.

Isn't a better measure is closing Betfair price?

Maybe, I guess it's just opinion. I don't see why it's a better measure than the average of each £1 matched. I mean, and I know it's a silly example, if £1,000,000 was matched at 2.0 and £10 at 2.5 at the close which would be a better indicator? I don't suppose it matters providing it is explained and you know you are looking at apples and not bananas. 

[JoeBeevers]

Thanks for the reply.

To clarify though,

We will be posting our selections in good time before the events. Sometimes that may be on a Monday for the Saturday and sometimes on the Friday or even Saturday morning. The stats for each of the last four seasons are scarily similar. We would be happy if this continues.

'Average Betfair prices' are nothing to do with what bets we get. It is the average price each £1 has been matched at on that particular market - so all prices matched averaged by amounts matched at those prices. We obviously try to beat the average price and we often do.

Do you have historic records for the closing prices in Asia for your bets or just the p/l? Issue being that closing line is generally the better measure of performance than p/l until the sample gets very large and the average BF price will be a lot less efficient on average than the Asia closing line.

Sorry, but I am skeptical if you're suggesting you're beating Premiership ou markets for ~13% ROI consistently every season - that would probably elevate you guys above THE very best out there like Tony Bloom! Wouldn't that sort of record suggest you could also easily beat other leagues (given that the Premiership is one of the toughest) and make it trivially 'easy' to make so much money to dwarf anything you'd earn from a tipster service many times over? (although you say that it's not being setup purely for financial reasons)

The best price is not always on Betfair but we chose Betfair as it is easier to work with just one set of prices. Betfair are often the best price (after commission) but not always and sometimes we bet with bookmakers or other exchanges too.

Is this definitely the case (for these markets)? If individual bookies are betting to a 2.5% or so over-round and there's 3-4 different sets of Asia prices, it seems unlikely that Betfair will be often best price! Indeed if you look at the closing ou2.5 prices for the Premiership this past weekend, Betfair was never best price after 5% comm. Though, if anything, referring to Betfair prices would deflate your record.

I have just been reading some of your posts in other threads, you are quite an interesting chap.

Would you mind telling me who you are, you real name and your experience? I would be interested to know where you work. Have you ever worked for Tony? He is a very good friend of ours.

You make lots of assertions and assumptions in your posts and I don't necessarily agree with them all.

The truth is that most people don't have access to Asian markets. On this project we are using exchanges and the typical 20 or so bookmakers that you will find on the UK comparison websites. What I have written is our experiences in how we are proceeding and have done so far. It is fair to be sceptical. I am always sceptical if someone claims to be able to make money gambling. I would like to hope though that Neil and I are quite well known in the community and others can make there own judgement.

Our current ROI may well be high, it may well be variance. We are however having fun and making a profit and we hope to share that with our users.

This is not some kind of get rich quick scheme for anyone. We have already said that initial selections will not be subscription based. If you are as interested as you seem here then come along for the ride. I'm not asking you to bet the selections, just watch and let's see what happens.

Bettingemporium has LOTS of ideas that users will like. We hope to continue to have fun and make some money too.

[adnmdv]

Maybe, I guess it's just opinion. I don't see why it's a better measure than the average of each £1 matched. I mean, and I know it's a silly example, if £1,000,000 was matched at 2.0 and £10 at 2.5 at the close which would be a better indicator? I don't suppose it matters providing it is explained and you know you are looking at apples and not bananas.  

That's an example though that wouldn't actually occur since the Premiership OU markets are such high liquidity. Problem is you're 'contaminating' the accuracy of the price by factoring in prices a bet was matched at when all team news info was not available and before the biggest/best bettors place their bets (given that Betfair largely tracks Asia rather than the other way around). It definitely matters what measure you're using if that's how you're measuring your success.

You make lots of assertions and assumptions in your posts and I don't necessarily agree with them all.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting this venture is a scam if that's what you think I mean, I just think your stats are potentially misleading, intentionally or unintentionally, by quoting a 60% strike rate on a small sample size. If you've got good records vs the closer then it's very impressive whereas if you're losing to the closer, not so much. Comparing them vs the average BF price is 100% not the way to go. Until you release the records along with the website launch it's perhaps best to refrain from judging completely but using average BF price as your measure doesn't seem right to me!

The truth is that most people don't have access to Asian markets. On this project we are using exchanges and the typical 20 or so bookmakers that you will find on the UK comparison websites.

That's not true. Anyone in the UK can just setup a SBO or Pinnacle account. There's also several bookies which mirror IBC prices where you can open accounts without agents. For your target audience this would be more than enough.