Live cash - two preflop spots with AQ

[cambridgealex]

The Vic. 1/2. Get a seat and get dealt in first hand. I open AQo utg1 or utg2 to £8. I've sat with £400. I'm immediately told by the floor that my seat in another game is available so I tell the table that this will be my first and last hand.

Splashy looking guys in cutoff through to sb all peel, bb is a young reg looking guy who asks me how much I'm playing in a scandi accents then makes it £50.

4b/call too thin? Prefer peeling?

Hand 2

The Vic 2/5. History vs Villain. Young, bought in for 3k, knows the staff. Confirmed reg. we played out a hand a couple of hours ago - I've raised pre 20 from ep, he's peeled mp ive cbet 25 on K42r, he's peeled, turn 2x i've checked he's bet 40 (betsize felt pretty faceup as a small-med pair trying to get thin value) I called, river blank check check my JJ wins, he had 99. have seen him limp utg and cold 4bet/call vs someone, didnt see his hand, but was <KK as AK won on Kxxxx. he's also been opening a decent amount, and 3betting a decent amount, opening limping quite a bit too though. I'd 3bet folded to his cold 4 about 10 minutes before this - I had an aggro image and probably seemed too aggro, even though I'd just had hands.

The hand: he opens to 15 utg2, peeled from mega whale (cold calling 3bets wtih 34o, open jamming for 1200 into 100-500 pots on several occasions, all with strong hands), and a couple of other late pos peelers.

I have AQo in bb and make it 90. He then 4bets to £190. I'm playing £800/850ish. Felt like he'd be strong here with gameflow.

Going with it?

[SuuPRlim]

mmmmmmm

hand 1) i'd peel, seems way better than 4b/cwith no history/reads/idea of gameflow, either that or you could just wish the £8 good luck and pretend the hand never happened

hand 2) isn't just calling better OOP to the competent reg and ensures you keep the other guy in the pot, obviously the main value in 3betting is to get value out of him, but seems like a spot you could PC a bit cos it won't be too hard to build a pot vs the other player if you make a pair+ and there wont be a lot of profit in this hand vs the reg if he's good OOP... Now I don't really know calling and 4betting both seem a bit iffy. He must realise that you can ship/5b wide-ish for value here so I can't see the 4bet being too light too often, flatting ensures the other guy will prolly call as well but you're hand isn't going to be easy to play postflop + folding seems kinda weak given the dynamic....

Yh IDK, feels like I'd prolly fold, don't actually think is is too bad of a spot to use AQo as a 3b/f but obv it isn't ideal.

[pleno1]

Think I'd fold hand 1, but its close. Meh calling is probably best

Hand 2 I would definitely fold, but we should know before we 3bet if we're going for value/bluff right?

[cambridgealex]

Think I'd fold hand 1, but its close. Meh calling is probably best

Hand 2 I would definitely fold, but we should know before we 3bet if we're going for value/bluff right?

I think its fine to 3bet for value given a pretty high amount of the time the reg's gonna fold/call worse, and the whale is gonna call 100% with a massively inferior range.

And then the times we get 4bet by the reg, we can decide between jam/fold.

[pleno1]

Yeah, I agree too, just generally will know before I do the raise, depending on the feel of the game. I think in this spot, its really just down to your feel rather than anything that can be taken form a theory POV as live dynamics are so hard to translate into words, as you know, sometimes you gotta just pile and sometimes its a really easy fold.

[sedds]

I'm always tempted to focus on why he hasn't flatted to keep the whale in on hand two. Though seen as your range should be wide-ish value, its probably a good spot to 4bet with the top of his. The fact he is opening oop to the whale and the fact you are 3betting from BB would make me fold this.

[JustinSayne]

Really hate calling in hand 1 with AQ tbh. Pretty happy just to fold. If I was going to put any more money in the pot I would just put the pile in.

Im really not a fan of "calling to flop a pair" with this STPR. You can say "oh we can float etc" but in reality he just cbets and we fold 70% of the time.

I really really want to jam AQ in hand 2 since he should flat with most strong hands to keep the whale in. But once again just lean towards folding.

Also 3betting AQ here is def a slam dunk with whale in the pot

[cambridgealex]

Agree with Callum about peeling pre in hand 1 - just never flop a pair and always just fold to the cbet

[jgcblack]

hand 1
fold and give up the £8... you're just not getting abused enough for it to ever matter....
definitely don't tell anyone.

hand 2
probably folding... think he gets AK in the face... but I don't expect to see a lot of complete bluffs here too often.  And if he's competent he will likely just own us with this shallow pot:stack ratio to much.
We can be peeling more often oop when we're super deep like pre, but now there's a fourth bet and a likely 3 way situation... seems like we're going to get put in a coffin way too often.



Having said all of the above, playing in my first 2/5 the other day... in london.  I was surprised to see some apparently 'good' players doing some really funky things (read "i think its bad") in poor spots vs other regs.  They were called a lot and still continued... so possibly more OOL than the 1/2 I've played a lot of recently.

Needs live reads and more evidenced BS/ OOL imo

[Deadman]

Yeah, I agree too, just generally will know before I do the raise, depending on the feel of the game. I think in this spot, its really just down to your feel rather than anything that can be taken form a theory POV as live dynamics are so hard to translate into words, as you know, sometimes you gotta just pile and sometimes its a really easy fold.

What about ranges though? ;-)

[jgcblack]

Yeah, I agree too, just generally will know before I do the raise, depending on the feel of the game. I think in this spot, its really just down to your feel rather than anything that can be taken form a theory POV as live dynamics are so hard to translate into words, as you know, sometimes you gotta just pile and sometimes its a really easy fold.

What about ranges though? ;-)

"he posts when he wants, he posts when he wants, he's Simon Deadman and he posts when he wants"

[pleno1]

Yeah, I agree too, just generally will know before I do the raise, depending on the feel of the game. I think in this spot, its really just down to your feel rather than anything that can be taken form a theory POV as live dynamics are so hard to translate into words, as you know, sometimes you gotta just pile and sometimes its a really easy fold.

What about ranges though? ;-)

Well thats the exact point, lol.

If we expect villain to increase his bluffing range then we will re-act accordingly. If you think somebody will decrease his bluffing range then you act accordingly. This is poker, not just looking at him, "will you show if i fold mate" and then making a decision.

I'm not suggesting thats how you play btw but the exact point of my post was to exactly think about ranges, rather than trying to play std GTO.

[Deadman]

AQ isn't any of herbies kids initials so fold both pre IMO Al...

[edgascoigne]

AQ isn't any of herbies kids initials so fold both pre IMO Al...

Life could've been so different - Quentin Herbert...

[Royal Flush]

Fold the first hand, not even done a table charge in the coup, go play the other game.

Hand 2, just fold you can't be light here with the whale knocking about.