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Author Topic: Live cash...how do We get max value?  (Read 5397 times)
LB44
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« on: February 18, 2013, 03:14:15 PM »

Live cash £1/£1

Really fishy...

I'm most active player at the table by far...to my right is prob 1 of 2 other players who I would describe as being competent and he is the tightest player at the table.

It's late on in the night and I'm playing around £800 and the tight villain on my right is playing around £450. We haven't tangled in any pots so far.

Villain opens the button to £7
I 3 bet from the small with   to £22
Folds back to OR who 4 bets to £58
We call.

Flop  

We check, villain checks.
Turn  
We bet £54 Villain raises to £156
Thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 03:21:44 PM by LB44 » Logged
outragous76
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2013, 03:38:38 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!
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GreekStein
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2013, 04:26:18 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!

no way
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outragous76
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2013, 04:38:38 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!

no way

Really depends on how you see his range! I can't think of a hand we get value from, nor one that villain bets river with that we beat given his jam is only 50% pot

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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 05:02:43 PM »

Call then check/decide no value in raising, might miss a smidge of value vs AT but he has a lot more better hands/bluffs than that.

Need a major dynamic to do anything else.

Probs rage fold pre too.
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GreekStein
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 05:08:59 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!

no way

Really depends on how you see his range! I can't think of a hand we get value from, nor one that villain bets river with that we beat given his jam is only 50% pot



surely you've just listed reasons why we shouldn't jam?
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outragous76
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 05:38:35 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!

no way

Really depends on how you see his range! I can't think of a hand we get value from, nor one that villain bets river with that we beat given his jam is only 50% pot



surely you've just listed reasons why we shouldn't jam?

absolutely - i wouldnt jam...................... see thread title

(i would be sigh calling off river on that board, which i think my comments inferred)
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GreekStein
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 05:52:09 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!

no way

Really depends on how you see his range! I can't think of a hand we get value from, nor one that villain bets river with that we beat given his jam is only 50% pot



surely you've just listed reasons why we shouldn't jam?

absolutely - i wouldnt jam...................... see thread title

(i would be sigh calling off river on that board, which i think my comments inferred)

hmm it doesn't seem to infer that
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outragous76
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 05:57:53 PM »

whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK, and his play seems weird to check flop raise turn with that holding?

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to

Call now, for sure, river is probs a jam to get value from AK, and surely he checks kk behind anyway? Just sigh when he shows you QQ!

no way

Really depends on how you see his range! I can't think of a hand we get value from, nor one that villain bets river with that we beat given his jam is only 50% pot



surely you've just listed reasons why we shouldn't jam?

absolutely - i wouldnt jam...................... see thread title

(i would be sigh calling off river on that board, which i think my comments inferred)

hmm it doesn't seem to infer that


Ok, you must be right


whats his 4 bet range?

I mean if we think this is the top of this range then we arent in great shape unless he has exactly KK,

Also struggling to see why he doesnt bet flop with AK in position to


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LB44
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 05:58:51 PM »

Yeah I was thinking through the hand is this some sick set up with AA or QQ but i would certainly expect him to bet that flop with a set so when he checked behind I was slighly confused, and thought he may now have KK.

The raise on the turn I felt was really strong. I had not seen him 4 bet pre all night and I could tell he avoided me in pots all night and now was showing strength.

I sigh called...and oh hello beautiful Queen on the river...now here's where I'm beating myself up....I checked. Thoughts?

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outragous76
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 06:00:24 PM »

Yeah I was thinking through the hand is this some sick set up with AA or QQ but i would certainly expect him to bet that flop with a set so when he checked behind I was slighly confused, and thought he may now have KK.

The raise on the turn I felt was really strong. I had not seen him 4 bet pre all night and I could tell he avoided me in pots all night and now was showing strength.

I sigh called...and oh hello beautiful Queen on the river...now here's where I'm beating myself up....I checked. Thoughts?



Changes nothing other than card removal for his quads

I don't hate it fwiw.

In fact it might improve your chances of him betting ak as there is 1 less q you can have and it kills your AT A5 holdings
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 06:02:20 PM by outragous76 » Logged

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JustinSayne
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 07:45:04 PM »

I am more inclined to fold than I am raise. Sucks that he only reps 2 combos of better. However his 4bet range is going to be JOKE tight imo. Atleast for most live players anyway.

Title should be "How do we get to showdown cheapest/river a A ball"

Cheesy
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pleno1
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 07:51:19 PM »

we have a bluffcatcher.
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 11:40:02 PM »

we have a bluffcatcher and he's done two nutted live things in one hand..
- 4bt pre (any position is nutted until proved otherwise)
- raised the turn (people just dont bluff enough in these spots)

looks like an easy bet/fold for me.. when he's on our right, if he's going to try this once and orbit... gl to him. abuse him the other 7/8 hands!
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outragous76
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2013, 12:19:31 AM »

we have a bluffcatcher and he's done two nutted live things in one hand..
- 4bt pre (any position is nutted until proved otherwise)
- raised the turn (people just dont bluff enough in these spots)

looks like an easy bet/fold for me.. when he's on our right, if he's going to try this once and orbit... gl to him. abuse him the other 7/8 hands!


how much do you prpose we bet?
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