Live cash...how do We get max value?

[smashedagain]

So I checked...and villain insta checked behind with the flopped nuts KJ. Did he miss a bet here? He had a half pot stack shove behind. Should he pull the trigger? I was surprised he checked, unless he put me on AQ exactly then surely I am going all in on the turn with AA/QQ/TT over his £158 raise?

Think about it in his spot though. He has pulled the trigger and with his heart in his mouth, after seeing you've called he has flopped the joint, the nuts, the whole shbang. His heartrate has increased, his pupils dilated slightly and he straightens up in his seat just a touch. Then you check and he checks. His mind has slightly clouded at this point and he has reverted back to his basic poker instincts, nuts= check...

His mind races as he watches you tank on the turn. All he can think about is Vegas and the fucking mirage. All he can think about is stacking a huge pot having pulled the trigger preflop. The river card descends slowly in our villain's eyes. He agonises and the fateful river is dealt. A pair up. His thoughts of stacking stupid tourists for a massive pot with rolled up aces into kings disapear. His anger and pain blind the thought of betting for value,, his heart has gone.

i like this. Us it your own work or been lifted from somewhere?

[SuuPRlim]

I think KJ is literally the only hand checks the flop and raises the turn with for value because people have AA/QQ they dont want the turn to come a K or a J, imo.

OFC it makes much more sense, if you're going to check a nutted hand back OTF to check AA because its takes away a huge amount of hands they can call you with. Obviously should always bet the flop, always.

This being said I don't think you can fold the turn, can't trust people to not be rolling their faces and you're getting a good price, combined with half a chance he's going for a very weird value line with AK (thin I know, but sightly possible)

I think shipping the river might be the best line, now that QQ isnt possible, we're going broke vs AA everytime, he has exactly zero hands that need to bluff and some hands which willl never fold to a jam might check back once in a while.

had we not rivered the queen, I think it's a c/f.

[Deadman]

Ask him if he cuts up cows for a living.

Cause he fkin butchered that hand

Blonde should have a 'like' button

[Deadman]

Recreational players will often check flop and raise turn with the flopped nizzles. I see this all the time at both micros online and 50/1 1/1 live.

That's exactly what I said...

He has independantly done two things that are nutty inone hand = NUTS!

He 4bt pre.. - doesn't have to be nutty but often is.
He's combo check flop IP and raised turn... Bad players barell in bad spots as bluffs... They dont start checking and raising as a bluff.

Its a super easy bet/fold otr getting 5-1 with the best bluffcatcher.

The majority of people won't have AT pre, so we lose to TT/ QQ/ AA, potentially chopping with AQ.

Saying I have to call for pot odds seems weak in these spots. Id be tanking TT to a raise Tbh, probably meh fold and not diary it.

This. Very good JB

[WotRTheChances]

His line up to the turn indicates a range of AA/QQ/TT/KJ and a few bluffs (i don't think we can discount spazzes even from competant players when playing live). Generally i'll be calling turn and check/deciding on almost all rivers... probably tending towards a fold, because as Pleno says, we have a bluff catcher (assuming AT makes up a tiny percentage of his 4-bet range pre and its super-unlikely he plays it this way even if he did 4-bet pre.

Once the turn pairs the Q, i'm rarely checking. Seems like villain has ~200 back into a pot of >400? Seems like a really clear jam. Getting called by all of the above range of AA/QQ/TT/KJ, but obvs he has a lot more TT and KJ combos than the only remaining combo of AA he can have beating you. He'll probably give up on spazzes a decent % now too. I guess in a tough game I might be checking here a decent % as good villains will be value-shoving KJ/TT otr, but not so much in a soft 1/1 game.

[Whollyflush]

careful about folding rivers because we are going to be getting a really good price, with a boat in a 4b pot against an unknown.

[jgcblack]

you want to b/call turn and bet river guys? wtf lol

so much nonsense itt, call turn and c/decide river.

this.

some crazy responses itt

I dont think anyone meant

check flop
bet/call turn
lead river

I think we meant
check flop
bet turn
bet river

OR
check flop
check turn
bet river



I think I've literally c, b/c, b like once in my life.. and I'm fairly sure I rivered a meganuts hand.



fyi

me.ga.nut.s
/meh-gah-nut-zzzzzz/

Noun
A very strong holding in a game of cards, generally going to be the best hand possible.  "I just made the meganuts bro, and he paid like a boss!"
Synonyms
nizzles - nutsbrah - you lose

[smashedagain]

Lol

[pokerfan]

Recreational players will often check flop and raise turn with the flopped nizzles. I see this all the time at both micros online and 50/1 1/1 live.

That's exactly what I said...

He has independantly done two things that are nutty inone hand = NUTS!

He 4bt pre.. - doesn't have to be nutty but often is.
He's combo check flop IP and raised turn... Bad players barell in bad spots as bluffs... They dont start checking and raising as a bluff.

Its a super easy bet/fold otr getting 5-1 with the best bluffcatcher.

The majority of people won't have AT pre, so we lose to TT/ QQ/ AA, potentially chopping with AQ.

Saying I have to call for pot odds seems weak in these spots. Id be tanking TT to a raise Tbh, probably meh fold and not diary it.

This. Very good JB

Op has AAQQQ otr

[LB44]

So I checked...and villain insta checked behind with the flopped nuts KJ. Did he miss a bet here? He had a half pot stack shove behind. Should he pull the trigger? I was surprised he checked, unless he put me on AQ exactly then surely I am going all in on the turn with AA/QQ/TT over his £158 raise?

Think about it in his spot though. He has pulled the trigger and with his heart in his mouth, after seeing you've called he has flopped the joint, the nuts, the whole shbang. His heartrate has increased, his pupils dilated slightly and he straightens up in his seat just a touch. Then you check and he checks. His mind has slightly clouded at this point and he has reverted back to his basic poker instincts, nuts= check...

His mind races as he watches you tank on the turn. All he can think about is Vegas and the fucking mirage. All he can think about is stacking a huge pot having pulled the trigger preflop. The river card descends slowly in our villain's eyes. He agonises and the fateful river is dealt. A pair up. His thoughts of stacking stupid tourists for a massive pot with rolled up aces into kings disapear. His anger and pain blind the thought of betting for value,, his heart has gone.

Haha that is quite possibly my favourite post on blonde of all time hahahaha

[LB44]

I think KJ is literally the only hand checks the flop and raises the turn with for value because people have AA/QQ they dont want the turn to come a K or a J, imo.

OFC it makes much more sense, if you're going to check a nutted hand back OTF to check AA because its takes away a huge amount of hands they can call you with. Obviously should always bet the flop, always.

This being said I don't think you can fold the turn, can't trust people to not be rolling their faces and you're getting a good price, combined with half a chance he's going for a very weird value line with AK (thin I know, but sightly possible)

I think shipping the river might be the best line, now that QQ isnt possible, we're going broke vs AA everytime, he has exactly zero hands that need to bluff and some hands which willl never fold to a jam might check back once in a while.

had we not rivered the queen, I think it's a c/f.

I think I kinda let my head rule over this pot... It was 5am and I was booking a pretty decent nights work on a crappy 1/1 table and I had a horrible feeling I was being coolered on the flop and turn, and think I was just kinda relived that I didn't have to make a disgusting fold on the river when the Queen peeled that I acted too quickly and checked.
Looking back, and my instincts would have been to shove the river.
I felt like his check back on the flop didn't indicate a set, and was unsure he would just 4 bet me for fun with KJ, but I don't think he would raise the turn with less than top 2 pair, so were chopping (sigh) or im behind on the turn, but like you said it was a good price for the call incase he was going abit spazzy with something weird, and possibly he may raise the turn with AK, if he noted how active I was...AK is pretty nutted there too vs my 4b call range on the night. Just feel I missed the lot on the river.

[LB44]

His line up to the turn indicates a range of AA/QQ/TT/KJ and a few bluffs (i don't think we can discount spazzes even from competant players when playing live). Generally i'll be calling turn and check/deciding on almost all rivers... probably tending towards a fold, because as Pleno says, we have a bluff catcher (assuming AT makes up a tiny percentage of his 4-bet range pre and its super-unlikely he plays it this way even if he did 4-bet pre.

Once the turn pairs the Q, i'm rarely checking. Seems like villain has ~200 back into a pot of >400? Seems like a really clear jam. Getting called by all of the above range of AA/QQ/TT/KJ, but obvs he has a lot more TT and KJ combos than the only remaining combo of AA he can have beating you. He'll probably give up on spazzes a decent % now too. I guess in a tough game I might be checking here a decent % as good villains will be value-shoving KJ/TT otr, but not so much in a soft 1/1 game.

A good point you made was, "in a tough game I might be checking here a decent % as good villains will be value shoving with strong hands like TT-KJ.
I keep giving people too much credit at times after being schooled for months on end at DTD that when I go to places with obviously weak players im not adjusting, but also at the same time, adjusting too much by sometimes not giving them credit at all. This thread has given me a lot of good advice to think about. thanks guys.

[outragous76]

The only thing I would throw out there is that we accept his pre flop line and turn line are nutted yet they clearly contradict one another.

So as much as we tell ourselves he has kj on the turn, it's very difficult to go back to pre flop and tell ourselves in this one hand that he goes crazy pre for the first time and just so happens to flop the bojangles! In game, and we have all been there, this can be difficult to rationalise as we peer down at our top 2

[SuuPRlim]

thing is though, I'd expect him to take the pre-flop line with KJ over AA way more than id be surprised if he 4bet us with KJ, if that makes sense.

I just think that people DONT do this with AA or QQ all that often (speshly with QQ) post-flop.

[smashedagain]

Nice diary Liam.

One question, noticed you having a dig at your ex's current partner being a bit of a step down from you on facebook. As a tall handsome guy I imagine your ex to be like one of them super hot babes who hold the number boards up in British Superbikes. Any chance of posting a pic of said ex on here just to see if I'm right or not. Thx