How to get free stuff

[kinboshi]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

[Woodsey]

You always talk about wanting a debate but you never actually seem to engage in the debate.  Presumably you agree with my view that you can't just eliminate all immigration (or would you send people back to countries where they face certain torture or death?) so how would you tighten up the current regulations?  Do you actually know what they are or is your view just a very generic "stop the foreigners coming in?"  

Out of EU would be the quickest and most effective way imo.

[Woodsey]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

[kinboshi]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

[redarmi]

You always talk about wanting a debate but you never actually seem to engage in the debate.  Presumably you agree with my view that you can't just eliminate all immigration (or would you send people back to countries where they face certain torture or death?) so how would you tighten up the current regulations?  Do you actually know what they are or is your view just a very generic "stop the foreigners coming in?"  

Out of EU would be the quickest and most effective way imo.

How would you do that though?  Currently 53.5% of all UK exports go to the EU.  Are you happy for those markets to be much more difficult for the British companies to access and subject to complex customs rules and duties therefore affecting demand for British good and possibly costing jobs here?  I'm not being a smart arse here but the EU isn't just about immigration and it comes as a package.  Leaving the EU has potentially huge consequences.  There are a lot of benefits to membership and they come with costs and responsibilities too.   Incidentally I am not neccesarily a fan of the EU but it is such a complex policy decision that I am not sure "lets leave the EU so Romanians can't come over here and claim our benefits" (which incidentally they can't if they have never worked in this country) is a particularly constructive contribution to the debate.

[Woodsey]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

And keeping Brits out of work that we have to pay benefits to.

[kinboshi]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

And keeping Brits out of work that we have to pay benefits to.

Is that what you believe?  I think you honestly do.  So these immigrants are coming over here, stealing our jobs AND stealing our benefits!

[redarmi]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

And keeping Brits out of work that we have to pay benefits to.

So you do actually just have a problem with them being here period.  Whether they work or whether they don't?

[Woodsey]

You always talk about wanting a debate but you never actually seem to engage in the debate.  Presumably you agree with my view that you can't just eliminate all immigration (or would you send people back to countries where they face certain torture or death?) so how would you tighten up the current regulations?  Do you actually know what they are or is your view just a very generic "stop the foreigners coming in?"  

Out of EU would be the quickest and most effective way imo.

How would you do that though?  Currently 53.5% of all UK exports go to the EU.  Are you happy for those markets to be much more difficult for the British companies to access and subject to complex customs rules and duties therefore affecting demand for British good and possibly costing jobs here?  I'm not being a smart arse here but the EU isn't just about immigration and it comes as a package.  Leaving the EU has potentially huge consequences.  There are a lot of benefits to membership and they come with costs and responsibilities too.   Incidentally I am not neccesarily a fan of the EU but it is such a complex policy decision that I am not sure "lets leave the EU so Romanians can't come over here and claim our benefits" (which incidentally they can't if they have never worked in this country) is a particularly constructive contribution to the debate.

Well we shall see what happens when the vote comes after the next election, like you say its a complex argument and I'm well aware the that immigration is just a small part of the whole thing.

[Woodsey]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

And keeping Brits out of work that we have to pay benefits to.

Is that what you believe?  I think you honestly do.  So these immigrants are coming over here, stealing our jobs AND stealing our benefits!

Yes

[Woodsey]

All very warm and fluffy stuff, but I for one would still prefer to lower our SS bill by tightening immigration and taking just those we need in amongst other measures. Its pure economics for me, nothing to do with dislike of other nationalities.

When's that vote on staying in the EU again?

Most of the foreign-born population in the UK is from OUTSIDE the EU.

I don't care about those that have been here for ages and are citizens, they can stay no issue with that. I'm talking about the recent influx from the EU.

The ones coming over, filling job roles, helping stimulate growth in the economy and keep inflation in check?

And keeping Brits out of work that we have to pay benefits to.

So you do actually just have a problem with them being here period.  Whether they work or whether they don't?

No, I just have a problem with the economic cost to us, nothing else. Most people on here know my love for travel, part of that is enabling me to mix with locals away from the tourists and experiencing other cultures, so I have less than zero issue with that aspect of it.

[redarmi]

You do realise that you cannot claim come to this country and claim benefits don't you?  If you have never worked in this country and contributed then you cannot claim Jobseekers allowance, housing benefit, income support, child benefit or councl tax benefit.  You must have worked and contributed first.

[Woodsey]

You do realise that you cannot claim come to this country and claim benefits don't you?  If you have never worked in this country and contributed then you cannot claim Jobseekers allowance, housing benefit, income support, child benefit or councl tax benefit.  You must have worked and contributed first.

Well its as much about them taking jobs Brits would otherwise get, and benefits subsequently having to be paid to the Brit who is out of work as a result.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was after 6 months they could start claiming some form of support? Not that it would change my view massively.

[taximan007]

From what I have seen/experenced the reason that there are jobs available for foregn nationals is because the a hgh proportiion of the British unemployed feel that they are to good/educated/above takng such mundane minimum wage jobs.

There is a big difference in saying "I want to work" and HAVING to work..... imo

[Woodsey]

From what I have seen/experenced the reason that there are jobs available for foregn nationals is because the a hgh proportiion of the British unemployed feel that they are to good/educated/above takng such mundane minimum wage jobs.

There is a big difference in saying "I want to work" and HAVING to work..... imo

Yes I fully agree that is part of the problem too Graham, our benefits system is too attractive for those types and the lazy arse chavs who just can't be arsed. Whilst this discussion is centered around immigration there are other factors that create the demand for the immigrants. As you say, if locals HAD to work i.e. take the job offered or lose benefits it would be a different story.

They should send some of these guys out to San Fernando for a month with 50 quid in their pocket. Do you think that would scare them enough to get a job when they got back?  

In fact you know first hand what it takes to get out there and actually WANT AND HAVE to do it with very little in your pocket.