BM ... Cash player / Tournament player

[PointsUp]

This poker buddy of mine once told me that "You can't be any good at tournamnents unless you are a good cash player".

I disagreed, the way I see it is that although we're talking about playing hold-em, cash and tournament are two different games.

What do you think?

[Poppet7]

Well I only play tournaments and I do pretty well at them now, whenever I've tried cash games I usually lose. I agree that they are totally different games because if I'm playing cash games, it doesn't matter if it is NL, PL or L, I just don't know how to play them to my advantage.

[Newmanseye]

I myself have fantastic cash game results, So much so that tourney play was a drain on my bankroll, I do believe that if you are playing against some great players then having the skills from a cash game does help.

Cash games help you to be more patient, thet also show you how to be aggressive as time goes by at a table because the blinds dont go up but the stacks do, and you have to change gears for the shift in the table dynamic.

Cash games also help to highlight holes in your game very quickly, There is nothing like calling all your money off with a  against  in a tourney as the pain ends as soon as the aces falls. In a cash game you are heading in to your wallet for another £100 cos you just lost 4 hours of grinding profit.  ( I know this pain )

Tourney play often has a bit more gambling involved, as you are often forced to from time to time when short stacked and when the blinds go up.

[PointsUp]

That does hi-light the difference between the two and you can learn a lot from playing both games

[Sark79]

I remember I once saw an interview with Daniel Negreanu. In this he said that in his opinion Phil Hellmuth could never be considered as one of the all time greats because he concentrated on tournaments and seldom played cash games. He gave the example of Phil Ivey who plays both extreamly well. This was a couple of years ago, so I don't know if Hellmuth has changed because of DN's comments. He probably has, his ego must hurt when another top player says things like that about him.

[Scottish Dave]

i agree, im terrible at cash but my final table appearances in tourneys is excellent

[4dam]

I play both at an ok level. I make a little

mtt have alot of changing stratergies as blinds increase. and you get near to the cash. And tables become short handed.

with cash there alot more of playing table postion and pot odds. where odds say its time to call you can in cash where in mtt it could be the end of your tournie so you might wait for a better time.

[thetank]

I think it's easier to be a winning tournament player than being an winning cash game player.

In cash games every chip is worth the same. With the bankroll behind you, to be an excellent player a comprehensive knowledge of odds and the ability to calculate them at the table is necessary to exploit all situations where there is money to be made. There are more value calls to be made.

In tournaments the value of chips change the more there is in your stack. You won't draw to may hands unless you are getting great odds. It is not as important to know the odds precisely. Any marginal situation, you pack your hand and wait for a better spot. Most of the time, whether to call, raise or fold is clear cut.

This is why I play tournaments mostly. I like my maths, but I'll be booogered if I can manage too much of it at the tables.

[NoflopsHomer]

I think it's easier to be a winning tournament player than being an winning cash game player.

In cash games every chip is worth the same. With the bankroll behind you, to be an excellent player a comprehensive knowledge of odds and the ability to calculate them at the table is necessary to exploit all situations where there is money to be made. There are more value calls to be made.

In tournaments the value of chips change the more there is in your stack. You won't draw to may hands unless you are getting great odds. It is not as important to know the odds precisely. Any marginal situation, you pack your hand and wait for a better spot. Most of the time, whether to call, raise or fold is clear cut.

This is why I play tournaments mostly. I like my maths, but I'll be booogered if I can manage too much of it at the tables.

I've always found cash a bit of a grind, and even when I've won a big cash pot, more relieved than anything, whereas nothing beats a tournament win.

[thetank]

I've always found cash a bit of a grind, and even when I've won a big cash pot, more relieved than anything, whereas nothing beats a tournament win.

That's another thing that makes the cash games harder, as they're more of a grind, it's harder to keep your concentration.
The dynamics in tournaments change more often to keep your mind working. Always a player to say bye bye to, another table to move to, bigger blinds to post post etc....

[PointsUp]

Also, If playing cash and you've won a couple of big pots, don't you feel obliged to stay a while,
or do you feel ok about leaving when you feel like it?

[The Baron]

I spoke to Paul Maxfield about this in the summer. His views were that it's very hard to be both a fantastic cash player and a fantastic tournament player as the styles are very different. He was explaining that guys who clean up on cash tables generally dont do it in tournaments regularly and vice versa. Obviously there are exceptions (Chan, Greenstein, Ivey) but not all that often I wouldn't imagine.

I know that I for one, never seem to win at both at the same time. The strategies are so different that I think they are very hard to just change from one to the other.

Freddie Flintoff has often said he can hardly ever get his batting and bowling wokring well in the same match. I find this very true of tourneys and cash games.

[thetank]

I'd tend to agree with freddy, keep the cricket and poker seperate.

Every time I play online poker while waiting to get in about the crease, my test average gets shot to hell.