Hand v Sam Grafton at GUKPT London

[tikay]

May I just say this is probably the most interesting thread I've read in ages.

Fascinating stuff.

Amen to that, terrific Posts by Sam, Keith, Rupert, & the 2 Large Blokes (1 x Tall, 1 x rotundular).

[Rupert]

I don't recommend folding KK in this spot preflop. The reason I think calling the 5 bet rather than jamming here is because Sam might expect us to peel the 5 bet quite wide but not jam light. For example say we had JJ here, we might not necessarily jam it and Sam realises that so he might be able to hero fold TT-QQ, AQs-AK here if we jam because our get in range is a fair bit tighter than our peeling range (i.e. we are never 6 bet jamming T8s here). Sam probably doesn't expect our peeling range to be as wide as Keith says it is (lol at getting to this point with T8s) but nevertheless expects us to be 4 betting and peeling pretty wide due to the dynamic (we could easily show up with QJo or 66 or something silly). So Sam's range is going to be entirely for value and wideish (like he will probably 5 bet AK and JJ here and it's not unfathomable that he would be happy eeking out some more value with TT and AQs too). By just flatting we keep in these hands (the ones he might hero fold, TT-QQ, AQs-AK) and very likely stack the hand if they hit the board well (e.g. he's going to have a tough time folding TT on 234 or AQ on Q82). Obviously there's a small chance an A hits the flop and we are in a tough spot where we have to decide what to do but that's one of the pitfalls of taking higher EV lines, you are going to face tough decisions.

That said, jamming is obviously fine too, we very likely get it in against QQ+ AK.

[Tal]

You actually managed somehow to answer the question without making me feel like an idiot AND explain it in such a way I think I completely understand.


Sorcery!

[Pinchop73]

Would making the 4b more like 8k make this hand a little easier to define?

[The Squid]

Sam

How do you perceive the peel range?

Live read I had a sense that it was a value hand that got worried. So JJ/QQ or AK.

In general though it used to be only live pros that would peel and talk about pot odds and online guys frowned on it. That's shifted now so that online sickos do it aswell. Mostly comes from people playing with Bonomo, Dan Smith and those guys who rarely turn down what they perceive to be 'too good a price.'

[The Squid]

[/quote]
Great post, thanks for making it.

Point c, I was way wrong with my thought process, I didn't think you would give me any credit for having the ability to 4 bet air there. I mean, I've got grey hair and have trouble reading the cards without my glasses on.

Would I be correct in saying your 3 bet was relatively big and your 5 bet was relatively small to the sizes you would normally make in a similar spot?

If I am correct, what would your normal sizing be? And why did you vary from the norm, your cards or your opponent?
[/quote]

Think the most important thing in making the 5-bet is your stack size. With a bluff I need a sizing that doesn't commit me and obviously with value I either wanna give the illusion of weakness and/or fold equity. I guess I tailor a little either way based on my actual hand strength and what I want to achieve. Also sometimes your trying to set up a favourable SPR. OOP for instance you often just want to leave potsize back so you have a natural all in on the flop.

[The Squid]

You actually managed somehow to answer the question without making me feel like an idiot AND explain it in such a way I think I completely understand.


Sorcery!

Rupert's so much of a boss it disgusts me.

[Tal]

You actually managed somehow to answer the question without making me feel like an idiot AND explain it in such a way I think I completely understand.


Sorcery!

Rupert's so much of a boss it disgusts me.

It's probably like Brian Cox explaining relativity. I'm convinced I know it inside out after a 5 minute piece on TV, so I run excitedly to the first person I can find, beaming like a child with a bike-shaped Christmas present, only to find I can't explain any of what I just heard a moment before.

Does my nut in that he does that. Lovely hair or not.

Thanks for being so actively involved in this thread, Squid. Must be a bit weird being the only one who knows the ending

[pleno1]

Rupert abs nailed it.

[The Camel]

Great thread thanks fior posting.

Sad to say I am now retiring from poker.

7 furlong handicaps at Southwell are easier.

[The Camel]

I have been lazy, I have done little/no work on my game, well, ever really.

Without trying to sound to egotistical, Sam and Rupert probably have no conception what a huge edge I had over the game 10 years ago.

Even online I was winning big as recently as 2009.

That clearly isn't the case now.

I do possess some intangibles (laughably called "live skills") which players who have played a fraction of the live hands I have cannot yet own.

For example Sam - the guy who bet blind on the river, there's no way I would paid him off in your spot. You've probably never been in that position before. You played super confidently all day, until that hand came up when you seemed totally lost.

I have watched maybe 10 poker videoes in my poker career. Never had a minutes coaching.

I am a pretty good learner though, despite my age.

I pick up new concepts quite quickly. I won a lot of cash when stars first introduced turbo heads up sngs because I adapted my game very fast.

Have I got it in me to improve? We shall see.

Perhaps we need a PHA version of Tips for Tikay... "Coaching for Camel" lol.

[outragous76]

Without trying to sound to egotistical, Sam and Rupert probably have no conception what a huge edge I had over the game 10 years ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
                                      "ive heard dat Camel got sick skills"                                           " yeah we need to get to work"

[The Camel]

One week at lovely Luton 8 years ago:

3 tournaments played, 2 chops and a ft

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9967

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9970

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9971

[tikay]

One week at lovely Luton 8 years ago:

3 tournaments played, 2 chops and a ft

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9967

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9970

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9971

What a week that was, I remember Railing that £1k Final Table as if it were yesterday, with Eric "The Screw" Barker getting totally owned by the whippersnapper Thew.

I was writing stuff for Poker Europa at the time, & my headline must have ben copied a hundred times since - Thews The Daddy

I see I cashed in two of thode three Tourneys, too, just min-cashes. Nothing changes.....

Must say, I've rarely enjoyed or learned as much from a PHA thread as I have from this one.

[The Camel]

One week at lovely Luton 8 years ago:

3 tournaments played, 2 chops and a ft

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9967

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9970

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/event.php?a=r&n=9971

What a week that was, I remember Railing that £1k Final Table as if it were yesterday, with Eric "The Screw" Barker getting totally owned by the whippersnapper Thew.

I was writing stuff for Poker Europa at the time, & my headline must have ben copied a hundred times since - Thews The Daddy

I see I cashed in two of thode three Tourneys, too, just min-cashes. Nothing changes.....

Must say, I've rarely enjoyed or learned as much from a PHA thread as I have from this one.

Ha, I've rarely been as depressed by a thread as this one!