Hand v Sam Grafton at GUKPT London

[rfgqqabc]

most important part of the thread.

if we assume villain is 3betting light and expect him to 5bet light and want to construct a 4bet/[peel range we should do it with a strong range, including perhaps KK for range protection as well.

wtf is "range protection" when it's at home?

Keeping KK in strengthens your hand range so "protects" it. Not sure how this works in a 5bet pot in a live tournament here however.

[The Camel]

most important part of the thread.

if we assume villain is 3betting light and expect him to 5bet light and want to construct a 4bet/[peel range we should do it with a strong range, including perhaps KK for range protection as well.

wtf is "range protection" when it's at home?

Keeping KK in strengthens your hand range so "protects" it. Not sure how this works in a 5bet pot in a live tournament here however.

Surely this is irrelevant against a opponent you've never played before?

In this hand what is Sam basing his perception my range? Just what he thinks of my playing style? Or is there a generic formula?

[rfgqqabc]

most important part of the thread.

if we assume villain is 3betting light and expect him to 5bet light and want to construct a 4bet/[peel range we should do it with a strong range, including perhaps KK for range protection as well.

wtf is "range protection" when it's at home?

Keeping KK in strengthens your hand range so "protects" it. Not sure how this works in a 5bet pot in a live tournament here however.

Surely this is irrelevant against a opponent you've never played before?

In this hand what is Sam basing his perception my range? Just what he thinks of my playing style? Or is there a generic formula?

Perceptions and style. There is almost a generic formula as in virtually everyone will play a good chunk of hands the same way, especially in online cash for example. It is a little more difficult live where someone is liable to show 8s5s because they beat Great Aunt Betty with it in 1978. I'm pretty sure Sam puts you on a big hand as soon as you 4bet. Start with the base range and narrow down for every action ie. You open X% here, you call/4bet/fold with A/B/C% then look at what makes up hands in these spots. I.e prob folding KQo but calling with KQs, 4 betting AA and AKo but calling AKs. Then on your next action you flat the 5b. So now we know you have B% of hands that you have opened/4b/peeled. What hands would I give here that make sense for following action. AA(discount)/KK(discount)/QQ(1/3rd) Normally add a spew factor for random junk/illogical stuff (the 8s5s)

Normally in live poker its more like. Sweet, JcKc, il put in some chips. Oh seat 2 and 3 called, they're pretty loose. Oh I flop a Jack. Lets bet. Turn. He didnt raise and i have the toppest of pairs, I bet. River: Look at board, did any draws get there, maybe check/call maybe bet depending on opponent again. You'd lose your mind doing range analysis in low stakes live games, just not really worth it and it is instinctual like you have. The range protection side of things is something I don't really do but can exploit. For example in NLO8, it is often correct to open jam AA for lots of bigs as it is hard to play post and people call with worse. On a ft (thin) the other day,  a good reg jams utg+1 for 35bb. Next hand he opens for the minimum. As I know he doesn't have AA unless it is extremely premium, I can jam fairly wide especially if someone is short. Again, not sure how it applies in this live hand apart from discussing game theory.

I hope this makes sense and isn't absolutely horrible. I'm not 100% sure i wrote anything that worthwhile but I think this answers some of the questions.

[Doobs]

most important part of the thread.

if we assume villain is 3betting light and expect him to 5bet light and want to construct a 4bet/[peel range we should do it with a strong range, including perhaps KK for range protection as well.

wtf is "range protection" when it's at home?

Keeping KK in strengthens your hand range so "protects" it. Not sure how this works in a 5bet pot in a live tournament here however.

Surely this is irrelevant against a opponent you've never played before?

In this hand what is Sam basing his perception my range? Just what he thinks of my playing style? Or is there a generic formula?

Perceptions and style. There is almost a generic formula as in virtually everyone will play a good chunk of hands the same way, especially in online cash for example. It is a little more difficult live where someone is liable to show 8s5s because they beat Great Aunt Betty with it in 1978. I'm pretty sure Sam puts you on a big hand as soon as you 4bet. Start with the base range and narrow down for every action ie. You open X% here, you call/4bet/fold with A/B/C% then look at what makes up hands in these spots. I.e prob folding KQo but calling with KQs, 4 betting AA and AKo but calling AKs. Then on your next action you flat the 5b. So now we know you have B% of hands that you have opened/4b/peeled. What hands would I give here that make sense for following action. AA(discount)/KK(discount)/QQ(1/3rd) Normally add a spew factor for random junk/illogical stuff (the 8s5s)

Normally in live poker its more like. Sweet, JcKc, il put in some chips. Oh seat 2 and 3 called, they're pretty loose. Oh I flop a Jack. Lets bet. Turn. He didnt raise and i have the toppest of pairs, I bet. River: Look at board, did any draws get there, maybe check/call maybe bet depending on opponent again. You'd lose your mind doing range analysis in low stakes live games, just not really worth it and it is instinctual like you have. The range protection side of things is something I don't really do but can exploit. For example in NLO8, it is often correct to open jam AA for lots of bigs as it is hard to play post and people call with worse. On a ft (thin) the other day,  a good reg jams utg+1 for 35bb. Next hand he opens for the minimum. As I know he doesn't have AA unless it is extremely premium, I can jam fairly wide especially if someone is short. Again, not sure how it applies in this live hand apart from discussing game theory.

I hope this makes sense and isn't absolutely horrible. I'm not 100% sure i wrote anything that worthwhile but I think this answers some of the questions.

Haven't you just made a good case for not open jamming 35bbs with AA at NLO8?

[rfgqqabc]

most important part of the thread.

if we assume villain is 3betting light and expect him to 5bet light and want to construct a 4bet/[peel range we should do it with a strong range, including perhaps KK for range protection as well.

wtf is "range protection" when it's at home?

Keeping KK in strengthens your hand range so "protects" it. Not sure how this works in a 5bet pot in a live tournament here however.

Surely this is irrelevant against a opponent you've never played before?

In this hand what is Sam basing his perception my range? Just what he thinks of my playing style? Or is there a generic formula?

Perceptions and style. There is almost a generic formula as in virtually everyone will play a good chunk of hands the same way, especially in online cash for example. It is a little more difficult live where someone is liable to show 8s5s because they beat Great Aunt Betty with it in 1978. I'm pretty sure Sam puts you on a big hand as soon as you 4bet. Start with the base range and narrow down for every action ie. You open X% here, you call/4bet/fold with A/B/C% then look at what makes up hands in these spots. I.e prob folding KQo but calling with KQs, 4 betting AA and AKo but calling AKs. Then on your next action you flat the 5b. So now we know you have B% of hands that you have opened/4b/peeled. What hands would I give here that make sense for following action. AA(discount)/KK(discount)/QQ(1/3rd) Normally add a spew factor for random junk/illogical stuff (the 8s5s)

Normally in live poker its more like. Sweet, JcKc, il put in some chips. Oh seat 2 and 3 called, they're pretty loose. Oh I flop a Jack. Lets bet. Turn. He didnt raise and i have the toppest of pairs, I bet. River: Look at board, did any draws get there, maybe check/call maybe bet depending on opponent again. You'd lose your mind doing range analysis in low stakes live games, just not really worth it and it is instinctual like you have. The range protection side of things is something I don't really do but can exploit. For example in NLO8, it is often correct to open jam AA for lots of bigs as it is hard to play post and people call with worse. On a ft (thin) the other day,  a good reg jams utg+1 for 35bb. Next hand he opens for the minimum. As I know he doesn't have AA unless it is extremely premium, I can jam fairly wide especially if someone is short. Again, not sure how it applies in this live hand apart from discussing game theory.

I hope this makes sense and isn't absolutely horrible. I'm not 100% sure i wrote anything that worthwhile but I think this answers some of the questions.

Haven't you just made a good case for not open jamming 35bbs with AA at NLO8?

Well the $1.5mil winners jam and I don't v.often but who am I to tell them how to play, still a fish on a heater after all

[AlexMartin]

most important part of the thread.

if we assume villain is 3betting light and expect him to 5bet light and want to construct a 4bet/[peel range we should do it with a strong range, including perhaps KK for range protection as well.

wtf is "range protection" when it's at home?

Keeping KK in strengthens your hand range so "protects" it. Not sure how this works in a 5bet pot in a live tournament here however.

Surely this is irrelevant against a opponent you've never played before?

In this hand what is Sam basing his perception my range? Just what he thinks of my playing style? Or is there a generic formula?

yeah i agree, it should be extremely low down on the list of considerations (well it should be- its not like you are playing this even 5 times a day against the same players).

Protecting his range in this spot is moot, it doesnt come up anywhere near often enough to require balance and as dan morgan said, a 6b jamming range is probably MORE balanced.

[SuuPRlim]

you both just have very good hands in this spot, kinda nonsense suggesting otherwise tbh.

[skolsuper]

you both just have very good hands in this spot, kinda nonsense suggesting otherwise tbh.

Yeah Sam's 5bet is pretty bad imo.

edit: unless he's bluffing

[The Camel]

you both just have very good hands in this spot, kinda nonsense suggesting otherwise tbh.

Yeah Sam's 5bet is pretty bad imo.

edit: unless he's bluffing

If he's got aces he's won the minimum, that's for sure.

Totally mind fucked me though, whatever he had, so that must have a tiny bit of equity.

[SuuPRlim]

still dunno why it mind-fucked you to be brutlly honest, you know Sam's reputation, he 3bet you, you 4bet him, I can't believe you never thought you might get 5bet here lol

[Dry em]

Will somebody give me a price for Camel to win Ukipt?

[SuuPRlim]

Will somebody give me a price for Camel to win Ukipt?

I think with his new fearless attitude he's a red hot favorite.

6/1 here at the mutual of lil dave, 13/2 for regular donaters customers like yourself though Karl, Cos can have 9/1

[GreekStein]

Will somebody give me a price for Camel to win Ukipt?

I think with his new fearless attitude he's a red hot favorite.

6/1 here at the mutual of lil dave, 13/2 for regular donaters customers like yourself though Karl, Cos can have 9/1

fml

[Dry em]

You do realise this an old guy who the game has passed by? If he doesn't get blinded out he might fall asleep...

I'll take 10/1

[Pinchop73]

Will somebody give me a price for Camel to win Ukipt?

I was going to ask this myself, would be an epic moaned it in! Didn't want to bok Hero though. glgl today Keith!