Thatcher dead?

[bobAlike]

Definitely pro Thatcher here and proud of it. My life, my family and those around me certainly benefitted from having a PM with balls. Thatcher may be dead but thankfully Thatcherism is well and truly alive.

RIP

[aaron1867]

20 pages

[bobAlike]

20 pages

Under, but I've got money to blow thanks to Maggie

[kinboshi]

20 pages

Under, but I've got money to blow thanks to Maggie

Thatcherism in a nutshell.

[mulhuzz]

My wife and her family are from a mining village up near Durham and they all hate her quite intensely, my dad is from London and was in the forces and he idolises her. I have no affiliation although I don't really agree with speaking ill of the dead in general.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

I think this adds some colour and perspective to that view.

[MANTIS01]

Margaret Thatcher was a British hero. I think she embodied the determination and spirit great British leaders through history have displayed and she was respected as a great leader by major powers throughout the world. She protected British interests with undeniable zeal and enhanced our international reputation no end. I remember watching her in the commons bashing up the opposition time and again. I can only imagine how many people, particularly women, she must have inspired and empowered along the way. Her rise to power from humble roots in a male-dominated environment is a great British success story and I salute her life on this sad day.

Obviously all her policies were not universally acclaimed but then again I wonder which world leader has enjoyed such universal acclaim? We live in a democratic country and any policy must be voted in by a majority. The fact that her policies are deemed as personal to her only show what an incredible influential figurehead she was. As far as I can remember she didn’t urge Britain to attack a foreign country in an illegal war with false evidence like Blair did. I figure dropping bombs on innocent people is a more outrageous policy than creating some “hardship”. Yet one is a millionaire peace envoy and the other is the wicked witch of the west. Politics is a funny old game.

Now for anybody talking about historical figures in British history I enjoy studying British history myself. Do people know that....

King Henry VIII introduced the poll tax to Britain in 1520.

The Wars of the Roses circa 1455-1485 was a relentless bloody civil war fuelled by the social & economic divide between the North and the South.

These two things came to mind because the greatly vilified Thatcher is deemed responsible for Britain’s problems that began at the dawn of time. The poll tax was never her idea, it’s been implemented throughout history and the divide between North and South has been a constant since medieval times. I don’t greatly care if people ignore all the positives and fist-pump her death because it is much more a reflection of their character than hers.

“Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides”

"To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say. You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning."

"I want my money back!"

RIP Iron Lady

[FUN4FRASER]

20 pages

Under, but I've got money to blow thanks to Maggie

Thatcherism in a nutshell.

On Fire  !!

[bobAlike]

20 pages

Under, but I've got money to blow thanks to Maggie

Thatcherism in a nutshell.

Amen

[bobAlike]

Margaret Thatcher was a British hero. I think she embodied the determination and spirit great British leaders through history have displayed and she was respected as a great leader by major powers throughout the world. She protected British interests with undeniable zeal and enhanced our international reputation no end. I remember watching her in the commons bashing up the opposition time and again. I can only imagine how many people, particularly women, she must have inspired and empowered along the way. Her rise to power from humble roots in a male-dominated environment is a great British success story and I salute her life on this sad day.

Obviously all her policies were not universally acclaimed but then again I wonder which world leader has enjoyed such universal acclaim? We live in a democratic country and any policy must be voted in by a majority. The fact that her policies are deemed as personal to her only show what an incredible influential figurehead she was. As far as I can remember she didn’t urge Britain to attack a foreign country in an illegal war with false evidence like Blair did. I figure dropping bombs on innocent people is a more outrageous policy than creating some “hardship”. Yet one is a millionaire peace envoy and the other is the wicked witch of the west. Politics is a funny old game.

Now for anybody talking about historical figures in British history I enjoy studying British history myself. Do people know that....

King Henry VIII introduced the poll tax to Britain in 1520.

The Wars of the Roses circa 1455-1485 was a relentless bloody civil war fuelled by the social & economic divide between the North and the South.

These two things came to mind because the greatly vilified Thatcher is deemed responsible for Britain’s problems that began at the dawn of time. The poll tax was never her idea, it’s been implemented throughout history and the divide between North and South has been a constant since medieval times. I don’t greatly care if people ignore all the positives and fist-pump her death because it is much more a reflection of their character than hers.

“Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides”

"To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say. You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning."

"I want my money back!"

RIP Iron Lady

Great post Mantis

[mondatoo]

My wife and her family are from a mining village up near Durham and they all hate her quite intensely, my dad is from London and was in the forces and he idolises her. I have no affiliation although I don't really agree with speaking ill of the dead in general.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

I think this adds some colour and perspective to that view.

Good article.

"When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms. "

Balance FTW.

[The Camel]

Margaret Thatcher was a British hero. I think she embodied the determination and spirit great British leaders through history have displayed and she was respected as a great leader by major powers throughout the world. She protected British interests with undeniable zeal and enhanced our international reputation no end. I remember watching her in the commons bashing up the opposition time and again. I can only imagine how many people, particularly women, she must have inspired and empowered along the way. Her rise to power from humble roots in a male-dominated environment is a great British success story and I salute her life on this sad day.

Obviously all her policies were not universally acclaimed but then again I wonder which world leader has enjoyed such universal acclaim? We live in a democratic country and any policy must be voted in by a majority. The fact that her policies are deemed as personal to her only show what an incredible influential figurehead she was. As far as I can remember she didn’t urge Britain to attack a foreign country in an illegal war with false evidence like Blair did. I figure dropping bombs on innocent people is a more outrageous policy than creating some “hardship”. Yet one is a millionaire peace envoy and the other is the wicked witch of the west. Politics is a funny old game.

Now for anybody talking about historical figures in British history I enjoy studying British history myself. Do people know that....

King Henry VIII introduced the poll tax to Britain in 1520.

The Wars of the Roses circa 1455-1485 was a relentless bloody civil war fuelled by the social & economic divide between the North and the South.

These two things came to mind because the greatly vilified Thatcher is deemed responsible for Britain’s problems that began at the dawn of time. The poll tax was never her idea, it’s been implemented throughout history and the divide between North and South has been a constant since medieval times. I don’t greatly care if people ignore all the positives and fist-pump her death because it is much more a reflection of their character than hers.

“Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides”

"To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say. You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning."

"I want my money back!"

RIP Iron Lady

Universal acclaim?

There hasn't been a more hated political figure in modern history.

[millidonk]

My wife and her family are from a mining village up near Durham and they all hate her quite intensely, my dad is from London and was in the forces and he idolises her. I have no affiliation although I don't really agree with speaking ill of the dead in general.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

I think this adds some colour and perspective to that view.

[  ] Article changed my view.

"Respecting the grief" of the Thatcher family is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts
 
Disagree, if we thought like this we wouldn't have empathy towards anyone we didn't know personally.

[ X ] Guy comes across as a dick [ X ] Writes for the guardian

[rfgqqabc]

Did you just justify Maggie bringing in Poll Tax because Henry the VIII did it in 1520? You cannot be serious. This is neglected on the Poll Tax wikipedia page and as an aside, you can pretty much justify what you want using well someone else did it before. I was very close to bringing up Hitler but we all know that kills debates rather than start it. I think you will have a hard time supporting Maggie in regards to Poll Tax, why not bring up deregulation or the sale of council houses as a positive?

We do not vote for policies, we vote for Parties. I may disagree with Poll Tax, but support deregulation, because the party elected is by a majority doesn't mean the majority of people support that policy. I couldn't vote for Labour in the 2002 and may not have, but I would be extremely upset if you decided that that meant I voted in favour for the Iraq War.

edit: Obviously Wiki isn't the best source ever, but it does bring up three incidents of Poll Tax being brought in and ignores Henry the 8th.

[mulhuzz]

Margaret Thatcher was a British hero. I think she embodied the determination and spirit great British leaders through history have displayed and she was respected as a great leader by major powers throughout the world. She protected British interests with undeniable zeal and enhanced our international reputation no end. I remember watching her in the commons bashing up the opposition time and again. I can only imagine how many people, particularly women, she must have inspired and empowered along the way. Her rise to power from humble roots in a male-dominated environment is a great British success story and I salute her life on this sad day.

Obviously all her policies were not universally acclaimed but then again I wonder which world leader has enjoyed such universal acclaim? We live in a democratic country and any policy must be voted in by a majority. The fact that her policies are deemed as personal to her only show what an incredible influential figurehead she was. As far as I can remember she didn’t urge Britain to attack a foreign country in an illegal war with false evidence like Blair did. I figure dropping bombs on innocent people is a more outrageous policy than creating some “hardship”. Yet one is a millionaire peace envoy and the other is the wicked witch of the west. Politics is a funny old game.

Now for anybody talking about historical figures in British history I enjoy studying British history myself. Do people know that....

King Henry VIII introduced the poll tax to Britain in 1520.

The Wars of the Roses circa 1455-1485 was a relentless bloody civil war fuelled by the social & economic divide between the North and the South.

These two things came to mind because the greatly vilified Thatcher is deemed responsible for Britain’s problems that began at the dawn of time. The poll tax was never her idea, it’s been implemented throughout history and the divide between North and South has been a constant since medieval times. I don’t greatly care if people ignore all the positives and fist-pump her death because it is much more a reflection of their character than hers.

“Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides”

"To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say. You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning."

"I want my money back!"

RIP Iron Lady

One sided post, Mantis

fyp

To ignore the absolute hell she caused so many communities, and to ignore that she drove a wedge between the North and the South of the country and (largely) created a country wholly reliant on one city is to miss an entire side of the argument, and yet and yet and yet.

You'll never understand the vitriol pouring out today (not that I necessarily agree with it, particularly the 'bandwaggoned' part) without understanding those things. You're entitled to think that she did great things, just as others (like me) who saw her rip apart and mortgage the futures of several communities in the UK are entitled to think that in the face of all that destruction, her achievements are rather 'meh'.

The point is that you have to see the whole picture, the writing of one sided hagiographies is a dangerous game.

For my part, I'm finding it difficult to have much emotion about the topic in general -- I'm aware that Thatcher destroyed my community, and I'm aware that some of the things she did made it possible for lots of other people money, but those people were never the same people whose communities she destroyed. I'm not going to grave dance, and ding dong the witch is dead is a bit strong, but I won't shed a tear tonight.

But I am concerned that people are using the 'don't speak ill of the dead' argument too frequently and stopping sensible discourse.

[millidonk]

Hagiographies itt