Thatcher dead?

[the sicilian]

Hate the British mentality that if you work hard make something of yourself make a good few quid and provide yourself with a more than comfortable life your regarded as some kind of anti christ.... Now if your poor live in a shit hole and whine your whole life how hard done by you are your some kind of rebel hero ffs...

The problem with this though is that working hard and doing well for yourself aren't neccesarily as highly correlated as people think.  There are a whole host of other elements that come into play.  If you lived in Durham or South Yorkshire and were a miner in 1987 when your pit closed it doesn't matter how hard a worker you were you were simply not going to do as well as someone with the same work ethic that was born and lived in St Albans or somewhere.  Even if you had the brains, drive and skillset to start your own business all of your customers could, likely, not afford to buy in your shop, or get your new windows fitted or whatever.  Of course you could move but that isn't an economic and/or emotional reality for some families.  Of course life is like poker in that most people massively underestimate the role of luck when everything goes well and overestimate it when everything goes wrong.  If you lived in the Midlands or the South, worked in financial services, lived in a council house you could afford to buy etc etc during the Thatcher years you ran good.  If you were a skilled blue collar worker, lived in the North, Scotland or Wales and were a waiting list for a council house you ran bad.  

We all have choices in life most not easy.. perhaps moving to a different area more prosperous is an idea?

[the sicilian]

Hate the British mentality that if you work hard make something of yourself make a good few quid and provide yourself with a more than comfortable life your regarded as some kind of anti christ.... Now if your poor live in a shit hole and whine your whole life how hard done by you are your some kind of rebel hero ffs...

The problem with this though is that working hard and doing well for yourself aren't neccesarily as highly correlated as people think.  There are a whole host of other elements that come into play.  If you lived in Durham or South Yorkshire and were a miner in 1987 when your pit closed it doesn't matter how hard a worker you were you were simply not going to do as well as someone with the same work ethic that was born and lived in St Albans or somewhere.  Even if you had the brains, drive and skillset to start your own business all of your customers could, likely, not afford to buy in your shop, or get your new windows fitted or whatever.  Of course you could move but that isn't an economic and/or emotional reality for some families.  Of course life is like poker in that most people massively underestimate the role of luck when everything goes well and overestimate it when everything goes wrong.  If you lived in the Midlands or the South, worked in financial services, lived in a council house you could afford to buy etc etc during the Thatcher years you ran good.  If you were a skilled blue collar worker, lived in the North, Scotland or Wales and were a waiting list for a council house you ran bad.  

I get tired of people bleating... i had a tough childhood..my dad died when i was 10 and we didnt have a pot to piss we lived in a council tower block and no one gave us anything but i managed to make something of myself.. i didnt use it as an excuse why my life was so shit..i got on with it... we all have opportunities in life..its whether you have the guts and balls to do something about it..all too easy these days to sit back and blame someone or something else for our lot... its like bad beat stories..everyones got them and no one wants to hear them.. stop harking on about something that took place 25 years ago ffs... theres a billion people in this world worse off... you could be starving and drinking infected water from a river ffs... not whining your council house is too small and your dole moneys not enough..

[celtic]

Hate the British mentality that if you work hard make something of yourself make a good few quid and provide yourself with a more than comfortable life your regarded as some kind of anti christ.... Now if your poor live in a shit hole and whine your whole life how hard done by you are your some kind of rebel hero ffs...

The problem with this though is that working hard and doing well for yourself aren't neccesarily as highly correlated as people think.  There are a whole host of other elements that come into play.  If you lived in Durham or South Yorkshire and were a miner in 1987 when your pit closed it doesn't matter how hard a worker you were you were simply not going to do as well as someone with the same work ethic that was born and lived in St Albans or somewhere.  Even if you had the brains, drive and skillset to start your own business all of your customers could, likely, not afford to buy in your shop, or get your new windows fitted or whatever.  Of course you could move but that isn't an economic and/or emotional reality for some families.  Of course life is like poker in that most people massively underestimate the role of luck when everything goes well and overestimate it when everything goes wrong.  If you lived in the Midlands or the South, worked in financial services, lived in a council house you could afford to buy etc etc during the Thatcher years you ran good.  If you were a skilled blue collar worker, lived in the North, Scotland or Wales and were a waiting list for a council house you ran bad.  

We all have choices in life most not easy.. perhaps moving to a different area more prosperous is an idea?

It's an idea. A terrible idea. But an.idea.

[the sicilian]

Hate the British mentality that if you work hard make something of yourself make a good few quid and provide yourself with a more than comfortable life your regarded as some kind of anti christ.... Now if your poor live in a shit hole and whine your whole life how hard done by you are your some kind of rebel hero ffs...

The problem with this though is that working hard and doing well for yourself aren't neccesarily as highly correlated as people think.  There are a whole host of other elements that come into play.  If you lived in Durham or South Yorkshire and were a miner in 1987 when your pit closed it doesn't matter how hard a worker you were you were simply not going to do as well as someone with the same work ethic that was born and lived in St Albans or somewhere.  Even if you had the brains, drive and skillset to start your own business all of your customers could, likely, not afford to buy in your shop, or get your new windows fitted or whatever.  Of course you could move but that isn't an economic and/or emotional reality for some families.  Of course life is like poker in that most people massively underestimate the role of luck when everything goes well and overestimate it when everything goes wrong.  If you lived in the Midlands or the South, worked in financial services, lived in a council house you could afford to buy etc etc during the Thatcher years you ran good.  If you were a skilled blue collar worker, lived in the North, Scotland or Wales and were a waiting list for a council house you ran bad.  

We all have choices in life most not easy.. perhaps moving to a different area more prosperous is an idea?

It's an idea. A terrible idea. But an.idea.

didnt you move ?

[redarmi]

I get tired of people bleating... i had a tough childhood..my dad died when i was 10 and we didnt have a pot to piss we lived in a council tower block and no one gave us anything but i managed to make something of myself.. i didnt use it as an excuse why my life was so shit..i got on with it... we all have opportunities in life..its whether you have the guts and balls to do something about it..all too easy these days to sit back and blame someone or something else for our lot... its like bad beat stories..everyones got them and no one wants to hear them.. stop harking on about something that took place 25 years ago ffs... theres a billion people in this world worse off... you could be starving and drinking infected water from a river ffs... not whining your council house is too small and your dole moneys not enough..

I did something about it too.  I have moved to a different country on at least four occasions in order to work.  I have done alright for myself all told and I work very hard but on most of those occasions I was single and able to move.  It isnt that easy for everyone and I lived through it in Thatchers era and saw what it did to an entire community.  Eventually we were able to move on but for a long time it took a very real toll. 

[celtic]

Hate the British mentality that if you work hard make something of yourself make a good few quid and provide yourself with a more than comfortable life your regarded as some kind of anti christ.... Now if your poor live in a shit hole and whine your whole life how hard done by you are your some kind of rebel hero ffs...

The problem with this though is that working hard and doing well for yourself aren't neccesarily as highly correlated as people think.  There are a whole host of other elements that come into play.  If you lived in Durham or South Yorkshire and were a miner in 1987 when your pit closed it doesn't matter how hard a worker you were you were simply not going to do as well as someone with the same work ethic that was born and lived in St Albans or somewhere.  Even if you had the brains, drive and skillset to start your own business all of your customers could, likely, not afford to buy in your shop, or get your new windows fitted or whatever.  Of course you could move but that isn't an economic and/or emotional reality for some families.  Of course life is like poker in that most people massively underestimate the role of luck when everything goes well and overestimate it when everything goes wrong.  If you lived in the Midlands or the South, worked in financial services, lived in a council house you could afford to buy etc etc during the Thatcher years you ran good.  If you were a skilled blue collar worker, lived in the North, Scotland or Wales and were a waiting list for a council house you ran bad.  

We all have choices in life most not easy.. perhaps moving to a different area more prosperous is an idea?

It's an idea. A terrible idea. But an.idea.

didnt you move ?

My parents did. Took a massive amount of fortune and hard work. They managed it somehow. Not everyone can tho, no matter how hard they try.

[millidonk]

Hate the British mentality that if you work hard make something of yourself make a good few quid and provide yourself with a more than comfortable life your regarded as some kind of anti christ.... Now if your poor live in a shit hole and whine your whole life how hard done by you are your some kind of rebel hero ffs...

The problem with this though is that working hard and doing well for yourself aren't neccesarily as highly correlated as people think.  There are a whole host of other elements that come into play.  If you lived in Durham or South Yorkshire and were a miner in 1987 when your pit closed it doesn't matter how hard a worker you were you were simply not going to do as well as someone with the same work ethic that was born and lived in St Albans or somewhere.  Even if you had the brains, drive and skillset to start your own business all of your customers could, likely, not afford to buy in your shop, or get your new windows fitted or whatever.  Of course you could move but that isn't an economic and/or emotional reality for some families.  Of course life is like poker in that most people massively underestimate the role of luck when everything goes well and overestimate it when everything goes wrong.  If you lived in the Midlands or the South, worked in financial services, lived in a council house you could afford to buy etc etc during the Thatcher years you ran good.  If you were a skilled blue collar worker, lived in the North, Scotland or Wales and were a waiting list for a council house you ran bad.  

We all have choices in life most not easy.. perhaps moving to a different area more prosperous is an idea?

Yea this.. they should just hitch hike down south, taking only their favourite child and take up residence in the local bus shelter.. Simple.

[MANTIS01]

From humble roots as a woman with the odds stacked against her Margaret Thatcher went to university, became leader of the boys club Conservative Party, leader of the county and mediated between USA and Russia to play a pivotal role in ending the Cold War. Here is a lady who didn’t just talk the talk she absolutely walked the walk. Put simply, in the face of challenge, she just cracked on.

I’m from the Midlands so don’t care about North or South but like Thatcher I’m a patriot and support team GB. These days the challenges this country face in a much smaller global economy are stark. As a nation we are broke and spending more than we earn, even with all the cuts our debts are growing. We are facing intense competition from labour markets all around the world from people who don’t have the same sense of entitlement we do. So when you phone a call centre you get put through to India where labour is much cheaper and people just crack on. Only this year our country lost the AAA credit rating for the first time showing the people who hold the purse strings have less confidence in loaning us money than ever before. And we are still borrowing and borrowing.

Thatcher was a realist and knew in business terms it’s a rat race out there. I tried to prove people are innately selfish with history but really I should have used destroying the planet as a better example. So faced with the challenge of our country going to the wall what is our master plan? How are we going to crack on and keep up with the Chinese who don’t give one fuck whether we sink or swim? To stand outside ramshackle businesses that disappeared many years ago shaking our heads? If that is our mentality we have got no chance.

These days our indulgent sense of entitlement takes the biscuit. If you have an accident don’t just crack on, blame somebody, make a claim. The benefits system is out of control and people are flooding into the country to take advantage. Why not take out a pound till payday loan at 2000% to pay the bills? Why not stand on the streets and use your free speech to cheer the bodies of our soldiers as they arrive home? But don’t forget to wear your high visibility jacket for health & safety reasons.

I wonder how any of that helps us in the global business stakes to make a better future for our kids? The world will not stand around waiting for us. This country needs to crack on and stop bemoaning things that happened in the past. Right now we need a Margaret Thatcher like nobody’s business and I can only imagine what she would have made of this nonsense entitlement culture of ours. I don’t understand why people from certain areas think the government owe them a job for life and I don’t know how that attitude helps us keep up with the global competition who don’t.

I think it’s fair to say with Thatcher that when the poll tax era came around the magic had gone. But in her prime she drove this country to be better, greater and more proud. These days which clown in parliament do we think is going to do that for us? When we start seriously considering Boris Johnson we know things are bad.

My sister is facing her hardships like everybody else around the world. She lives in Christchurch, New Zealand and like many other people her home and her job were flattened in the earthquakes. Their whole community is rubble. When we talk she sometimes gets upset and bemoans her luck. My advice to her is don’t just stand there looking at the rubble shaking your head, it’s like somebody moaning about a bad beat, time to find a new career now, crack on. As it happens she thinks that is good advice and doesn’t go nuts and call me a troll. Moving forwards and cracking on is the only answer and it is what Margaret Thatcher did best.

[Woodsey]

Spot on Mantis, anyone who disagrees with that is probably one of the moaners who has that misplaced sense on entitlement.

[millidonk]

So what Mantis is saying is people need to crack on?

[Woodsey]

So what Mantis is saying is people need to crack on?

And stop moaning lol 

[Sheriff Fatman]

My sister is facing her hardships like everybody else around the world. She lives in Christchurch, New Zealand and like many other people her home and her job were flattened in the earthquakes. Their whole community is rubble. When we talk she sometimes gets upset and bemoans her luck. My advice to her is don’t just stand there looking at the rubble shaking your head, it’s like somebody moaning about a bad beat, time to find a new career now, crack on. As it happens she thinks that is good advice and doesn’t go nuts and call me a troll. Moving forwards and cracking on is the only answer and it is what Margaret Thatcher did best.

Ahh, I see now.  You were offering 'advice' to the miners on TV you were taking the piss out of.  I'm sure they'd appreciate that from someone 30 years after the events which you still appear to have little clue about, but which you felt so qualified to judge them on.

The bolded part is the funniest thing you posted though, given that I fully expect in 30 years time you'll still be referencing being called a troll at every opportunity, as you appear to have done in the last 24 hours.

Clearly the truth hurts, but if it makes you feel better, pointing out your trolling is a service I'm providing purely in a personal capacity.

Apologies to all the other readers for the next 24 hours of self-pitying, victimisation comments from Mantis which will now inevitably follow, but it's not like they weren't going to happen anyway.

[celtic]

Glad that's all resolved then.

[snoopy1239]

I'm not that knowledge on the subject so am open to my comments being very wrong, but my initial thought is that she didn't just give people drive, and teach them to "crack on", but to do so in a way that encourages greed, selfishness and a disregard for those less fortunate - aspects that can ultimately divide a society over the long term. While she did indeed make us a stronger nation financially, I think this is a somewhat misleading claim as she deregulated the financial industry and increased the gap between the rich and the poor, which could be argued is the very reason that we're currently suffering from a recession and having to rebuild the economy.

[bobAlike]

I'm not that knowledge on the subject so am open to my comments being very wrong, but my initial thought is that she didn't just give people drive, and teach them to "crack on", but to do so in a way that encourages greed, selfishness and a disregard for those less fortunate - aspects that can ultimately divide a society over the long term. While she did indeed make us a stronger nation financially, I think this is a somewhat misleading claim as she deregulated the financial industry and increased the gap between the rich and the poor, which could be argued is the very reason that we're currently suffering from a recession and having to rebuild the economy.

You might also argue that Blair and Brown caused the current financial difficulties.