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Author Topic: 99 facing Trigg's 3bet.  (Read 7457 times)
rfgqqabc
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2013, 05:17:18 PM »

pretty sure this was my first 3 bet on the table all day, was going to the streets heaps
Second, your previous one was worth me right after I got crippled.

At Marc, no offence taken but given its oop to one of the strongest players in the field I disagree to the tongue in cheek remarks. Probably peel TT fold 44/JsTs (fml) Peel QQ and never fold or just 4b get in can't decide, 4/6/8/10 AK.

I think my initial thought was 4b seems ok, call ok, don't fold then;
went to 4betting awful stacksizes nasty not 4/6ing in this 1k here, why 4fold
Call- Sweet ass hand to do it, fantastic price etc, Trigg has all the golden reasons to unload the clip though, perfect image, opponent and situation
Fold- And don't tell anyone. Unfortunately my nittiness got on my mind.

I feel like I was uncomfortable on the streets so decided to fight another day. Trigg possibly backed this up by saying he gets wool vs blondes/was going to the streets. Don't worry it did feel super dirty. At least this is a solid image post on my behalf.

Dave; Understand your comments completely, but it had been playing on my mind a fair bit. I hadn't had any other interesting hands. I also wanted to know if it was implausibly bad, because this is probably my first fold in this spot in my life. I've been making some silly folds lately imo, and it had to be checked out somewhere, I expected the correct level of bluntness in the topic for me to get the message. I do think the live situational reads are really hard to convey. I would have just pmed trigg but he had a few days play to forget this preflop 3bet spot.

dont think there is a huge different between TT and 99 in this spot, yet ur calling TT?

Gotta draw a line somewhere. Not saying I'm right btw
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2013, 05:27:36 PM »

how is this anything but a call (and play poker down the streets..), tonnes of stuff we can do post and we have a hand wayyy to strong to fold, would prolly fold 66<

we can win a number of ways, bluffing being one of the main ones.


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Dubai
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« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2013, 05:28:03 PM »

I'd obviously never fold 99 here for any amount at any stage playig as someone else v trigg but think TT is significantly better

As for the 5 hands Marc said I'm folding none of them if I'm not me v Trigg.
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Dubai
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« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2013, 05:31:17 PM »

Someone can run numbers but TT has a lot more equity than 99 v a decent range

I probably still flat them both but 4b going with Tens is way better than
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2013, 05:39:17 PM »

folding 99 here is a heroic pass. but it's kinda scared poker, i'm presuming you peel against any1 else's 3b.

if someone told you, you can see 4 cards for 10bbs maybe? you should c/c a whole bunch of flops and call in the nine ball on the turn. Smiley
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2013, 06:18:49 PM »

folding 99 here is a heroic pass. but it's kinda scared poker, i'm presuming you peel against any1 else's 3b.

if someone told you, you can see 4 cards for 10bbs maybe? you should c/c a whole bunch of flops and call in the nine ball on the turn. Smiley
Like 99% I imagine, took some stars to align with the table and that dynamic for me to fold here and its a spot where its hard for nitty to be THAT bad, but I don't want to lowball myself too hard because I should probably peel here.
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2013, 06:37:25 PM »

folding 99 here is a heroic pass. but it's kinda scared poker, i'm presuming you peel against any1 else's 3b.

if someone told you, you can see 4 cards for 10bbs maybe? you should c/c a whole bunch of flops and call in the nine ball on the turn. Smiley
Like 99% I imagine, took some stars to align with the table and that dynamic for me to fold here and its a spot where its hard for nitty to be THAT bad, but I don't want to lowball myself too hard because I should probably peel here.
i dont actually mind the fold as much as others, if you aint feeling the hand, you wont play your best post flop. i've recently open folded 99's to a single raise in a deep easy 1/1, now that is silly! ^_^
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action man
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2013, 08:09:50 PM »

not saying you were adam, but what shocked me in this tournament was peoples reticence to play post flop. And seeing some of the stuff ITM i realised why
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outragous76
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« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2013, 10:33:53 PM »

but what shocked me in this tournament was peoples reticence to play post flop. And seeing some of the stuff ITM i realised why

it would appear 3 years of rejamming 20bbs has left people unable to play post

I totally agree with you. Im sure it was impacted by a larger number of satty entries, but i was really surprised by the level of play in a £1k. I def ran good with tables draws, but even so............
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Dubai
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« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2013, 10:42:03 PM »

There are 40 or so really good tournament poker players in UK, probably 8-10 didn't play, there are probably 120-150 decent tournament players in UK, maybe 15-20 didnt play. There was 504 runners. The maths is pretty obvious
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2013, 11:20:53 PM »

Read some stuff about not feeling the spot so ok to avoid. But good villain sitting a few to the left is the spot we're facing the whole game.
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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2013, 11:49:13 PM »

think ours was one of the early ones to break and hero and villain both aware of this
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railtard1
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« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2013, 11:58:45 PM »

Read some stuff about not feeling the spot so ok to avoid. But good villain sitting a few to the left is the spot we're facing the whole game.

yh think i agree with this to an extent. I think 99 is way too strong a hand to fold here, and trigg is going to be to our left every hand, so maybe we shouldnt open 99 in the first place if were raise folding to triggs 3bet?

@dubai, agree about not folding any of them hands, hence why i picked them.
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2013, 10:02:07 AM »

considering this spot is in a complete vacuum, Trigg + Adam hve no practical experience of each others game and there has been no dynamic of note between the two of them so far, I'm not sure there is even succh a thing as too strong of a hand to fold in this spot, you give up equity by folding the strongest hands in your range but if you have a reason then that ok imo = you could fold QQ here if you wanted, providing you don't have a continuing range of only AA vs Trigg 3bet's for the duration of your play against him, then what you fold here is pretty irrelevant imo.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2013, 11:06:34 AM »

considering this spot is in a complete vacuum, Trigg + Adam hve no practical experience of each others game and there has been no dynamic of note between the two of them so far, I'm not sure there is even succh a thing as too strong of a hand to fold in this spot, you give up equity by folding the strongest hands in your range but if you have a reason then that ok imo = you could fold QQ here if you wanted, providing you don't have a continuing range of only AA vs Trigg 3bet's for the duration of your play against him, then what you fold here is pretty irrelevant imo.

I don't see it as a complete vacuum mate. Hero already gives a lot of concessions to villain about his ability and how he can put him in a coffin spot etc, this is what's guiding his decision making.

I think there are value implications to folding such as wtf do we open from now on? How do we win this table? How do we respond with 99 should he 3bet us again? There are also further value implications because let's say we flop a 9 so bust villain and the problem altogether then our expectations at the table would increase accordingly.

I think there being no dynamic means we have an opportunity to play a strong enough hand and build a dynamic, rather than using no dynamic as an excuse to fold and avoid building one. We are here to play poker afterall.
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