Hand from Alea

[Rexas]

I'm hoping I'm remembering this hand correctly, few minor details may be wrong. So, this hand comes up in a 1/1 game between myself and a solid, well known reg. Effective stacks are maybe 150-200bbs, and we are playing full ring.

Reg opens to 5 from early position, and gets two callers. I make the call from the cut off with KQos, and we see a flop four ways. The board reads J42 rainbow, and it checks to me. I check behind. Turn comes a K, giving us top pair, second kicker. It checks to us again, and we lead out 11 into a pot of 22, and get called by the reg. Everyone else folds. River card comes an os 6, reg checks, we fire 20 into a pot of 44, reg then makes it 40. Thoughts? Board at river reads J 4 2 K 6.

[pleno1]

just shrug call river I guess.

Would isolate 3bet pre flop and fold to the initial opener and hope to play cs one of the cold callers, who never have us dominated and we dominate them a lot + giving us initiative in the hand.

[rfgqqabc]

3b Pre is deffo worth considering, probably could argue for all 3 options pre.

Bet the turn bigger, we are most likely winning.

On the river, we have to call in theory especially with the small sizings, but it can be simple here, some people just have a set here.

[adiman999]

The raise on the river there is never a bluff imo, its too small and in general river check raises are rarely bluffs anyway. I feel you still have to call though, although you never really like calling in that spot.

But then having said that not many hands really make sense in that spot, 66 and 53 (which may not even be in his early opening range). Maybe AK makes sense, doesnt want to cbet into 3 people, check calls turn and raises river, but even then im not sure i like that line with AK, id be more inclined to check raise the turn, or lead at the turn. Going for a turn check raise on the turn risks it checking round once more and potentially losing value. Not sure what other hands check raise the river for value though, kind of a weird spot.

Not sure how many flopped sets are in his range when he checks it 3 times, seems like a weird line for a flopped set. I think 66 is defo what i would feel is the most likely holding for the reg.

[zerofive]

I think you can increase your aggression on every street ever so slightly. As pleno says, this is a decent spot to 3b pre and hopefully pick up a cold caller.

As played, I'm probably betting this flop when checked to; the pre-flop aggressor has given up the betting lead and players at these stakes are normally quick to let you know when they've flopped top pair. If they check/call you can normally blow them off on the turn and we can also ping a king or a queen or some backdoor stuff if they get stubborn with a 4 or like 55-77.

When you bet the turn, you can probably bet slightly bigger, like 14/15. On this texture, if you are getting called 10 you're probably getting 15. Might not sound super important but that's £5 you're missing out on which is probably 30 minutes work at this level (or 15 if you're Melissa ldo.) Same applies on river; the theory is (not to be overly simplistic) the less you bet, the wider you get called. But the gap between a jack and a four is massive (in before alex tells me not massive enough to prevent me 6balling it pre) so you might as well go big and hope they got a jack or a worse king rather than going tiny and hoping to get called by the four, because they're probably folding the four anyway.

Basically you're probably never winning now, but if we look at pot odds we should probably just call and expect to get shown better a fair amount of the time, plus you get a ton of information. I don't mind a fold here though.

[AlexMartin]

probably sqz KQo v 3, plays better, likely flat KQs. As played bet turn bigger, your hand is likely best and if hes calling 11 then hes calling 15. River is a pretty trivial betfold against most at this stake; they are almost never turning a J into a bluff/randomly spewing and nothing worse for value.

[adiman999]

3b Pre is deffo worth considering, probably could argue for all 3 options pre.

Bet the turn bigger, we are most likely winning.

I agree that an arguement could be made for all options pre. I defo prefer betting bigger on the turn.

[tight4better]

Deffo squeezing pre, gives us a great chance to play a 3bet pot with a strong hand IP. And prob means you pick it up on the flop.

OTR, it's a fold, he's an abso genius if he's bluffing here which plainly isn't the case, if you want you can pay £40 for information but it seems pretty expensive for the way the hand has played out.

[pleno1]

its 20 to call.

[tight4better]

still totals 40 unless I'm being retarded?

[Bully87]

still totals 40 unless I'm being retarded?

The 20 committed is no longer ours. I think thats what Pats getting at.

Still agree, 2 pair or better to call it off.

[mulhuzz]

it's £20 into £104 to call.

I think I'm going to do a call because there's always a chance they did something weird.

[Honeybadger]

it's £20 into £104 to call.

I think I'm going to do a call because there's always a chance they did something weird.

+1

Players do weird things from time to time. If you are good 1 time in 6 then you have a (very slightly) profitable call. You have no idea at all what villain is up to - maybe he has played a monster JB-style and has trapped you for an extra £20, but maybe he is just trying out some weird bluff. Since you have no way of knowing, just let the pot odds dictate your play.

It's obviously close - given the pots odds it can never be a huge mistake to call, but given the fact you are very likely beaten it can never be a huge mistake to fold. So really it doesn't matter all that much what you do. My philosophy is that in these close spots you should tend to call. Calling is more fun than folding.

[jgcblack]

Literally getting rubbed in life, friends and now poker everywhere this week...


Sigh.

3bt pre.
Bet flop.
Bet bigger turn.
Agree its too small to fold river but expect to only win 1 in 6, if youre lucky.

[SuuPRlim]

just give the man his £20