DC Help for Rexas

[SuuPRlim]

PLO8 + Superstud are the two worst games to pick on your btn. (I like both these games a lot)

Saying i) PLO is "simmilar to holdem" or ii) PLO is a simpler game than PLO8 is entirely incorrect.

4O and Padooki are the two best btn games (Padooki the best ofc) but I think that's pretty close.

Superstud is the hardest game to pick up properly (as in to stop yourself making costly mistakes) IMO, and the hardest game to really "master" is Padooki, the most profitable game to play REALLY REALLY well these days for live poker is PLO.

[gouty]

It's padooki only in UK.

If you choose 4 PLO you only get action from monsters and you cant get paid. At least with padooki you always have a play to win the pot.

 If I gave one tip about DC games it would be that, imo, any player who chooses plo8 or superstud will never pay you off for value in other games.

I remember a game in the International when I was towards the end of a 24 hour bender. It was plo triple flop, but whoever won most flops won? That was a the easiest game ever. I mean even the most pissed player ever can work out if you can't win 2 of em?

I was just so happy that you won the bloody pot not 2/3  of it. What is that game?

[Sweetman]

It's padooki only in UK.

If you choose 4 PLO you only get action from monsters and you cant get paid. At least with padooki you always have a play to win the pot.

 If I gave one tip about DC games it would be that, imo, any player who chooses plo8 or superstud will never pay you off for value in other games.

I remember a game in the International when I was towards the end of a 24 hour bender. It was plo triple flop, but whoever won most flops won? That was a the easiest game ever. I mean even the most pissed player ever can work out if you can't win 2 of em?

I was just so happy that you won the bloody pot not 2/3  of it. What is that game?

I remember that game at the international, triple flop omaha was a laugh. I played it there with a few of the dealers early one morning. There was a hand where the one the dealers (russian sounding name like "Slav") made the nuts on every board, something sick like Straight flush, quads and royal flush, every one got money in on the flop, and he backdoored every board!!  Miss that game.  I preferred the way they did it, 6 players, you all chose a different game, then played 6 hands of each on rotation.

[gouty]

It's padooki only in UK.

If you choose 4 PLO you only get action from monsters and you cant get paid. At least with padooki you always have a play to win the pot.

 If I gave one tip about DC games it would be that, imo, any player who chooses plo8 or superstud will never pay you off for value in other games.

I remember a game in the International when I was towards the end of a 24 hour bender. It was plo triple flop, but whoever won most flops won? That was a the easiest game ever. I mean even the most pissed player ever can work out if you can't win 2 of em?

I was just so happy that you won the bloody pot not 2/3  of it. What is that game?

I remember that game at the international, triple flop omaha was a laugh. I played it there with a few of the dealers early one morning. There was a hand where the one the dealers (russian sounding name like "Slav") made the nuts on every board, something sick like Straight flush, quads and royal flush, every one got money in on the flop, and he backdoored every board!!  Miss that game.  I preferred the way they did it, 6 players, you all chose a different game, then played 6 hands of each on rotation.

That's it. And you knew what round was next too somehow. It's all a blur but was a fun visit to town for sure.

[SuuPRlim]

If you choose 4 PLO you only get action from monsters and you cant get paid. At least with padooki you always have a play to win the pot.

Not sure what you mean by this, seems like you might be implying that 4-PLO is a "nuts only" type game, and that people don't call down "light"  or gamble - this is defo not at all the case in my experience, I'd say that you get as much action at 4-PLO as any other game, certainly in terms of having value-bets called (more action action in Padooki and S-Stud prolly)

There is also a LOT of bluffing in 4-PLO, mostly semi-bluffing ofc.

6-PLO is way different, yo surrender some positional advantage and there is a lot less scope to take post-flop liberties as you have to be very careful.

[strak33]

If PLO is a "nuts/monsters only" game then what is 5/6O?

[SuuPRlim]

If PLO is a "nuts/monsters only" game then what is 5/6O?

6O is a nuts+re-draw make the punters think you're gambling with them but really you're just waiting for them to over-commit with a hand that looks a LOT better than it is.

4O people, PUNISH THE NITS.

[gouty]

If PLO is a "nuts/monsters only" game then what is 5/6O?

6O is a nuts+re-draw make the punters think you're gambling with them but really you're just waiting for them to over-commit with a hand that looks a LOT better than it is.

4O people, PUNISH THE NITS.

It's rare to be deep enough in UK casinos to punish them. Anyway I am at work sober and prefer this thread when I am plastered.

[Honeybadger]

Gouty, I don't really agree with much of what you have said about Dealers Choice; the way DC games play in general, or your views on specific games in the mix. I know you don't want to discuss this when sober but next time you are drunk perhaps you can say a little more about your experience of playing DC games? You mention Blackpool and having played with Ming, is that where you are from? And do I know you? Is this the main DC school you have played in?

Your view that most DC games are heavily populated by 'competent nits' who are merely waiting to get the nuts plus 10 nut redraws and trick the punters into playing a big pot is not at all a fully accurate description - although there is, of course, a small element of truth to it. In reality, most of these old-time nits are pretty poor players who have developed a few street smarts and learned that tight (yet passive) play allows them to win a little money in soft games. The reason these guys are bad is not due to their tightness, it is due to their passivity.

Also, they are often not as tight as many people think. I have heard many DC players referred to as nits and I am thinking "WTF! Are you serious? That guy plays almost every hand!" But because these guys do a lot of limping in and calling raises, and only start betting when they finally have got the monster, they are considered nitty. These guys are so easy to beat! They dribble their money away slowly, calling bets and raises for 20% of their stack and then folding later streets (or sometimes just letting you get to SD for free when you have a marginal hand) when they don't make the nuts. They don't seem 'value' at first glance because they are not punting lots of money in with marginal holdings when the pot gets big. But really this is an illusion, and they are often great value in a different way.

I don't agree at all with the comment you made about most DC games being too shallow to punish these guys effectively. There are two reasons for my disagreement. First, whilst many games start shallow they grow over the night and by halfway through often play very deep. Plus many games start out quite deep anyway, for example in the DTD 5/5 game most of us sit with at least a grand at the start of the night and some players much more than this.

My second reason is that it is perfectly possible to punish the weak/passive nits when they have fairly short stacks. They limp in and call raises for a decent chunk of their stack trying to hit. Then they fold when they miss. The times they do hit something good you will try not to pay them off, whilst stealing all the pots when they are not happy to commit. Granted sometimes you bet the flop and they raise all-in and you have enough equity to call it off and so have to pay them off. But they dribble away so much when they call and then fold that they are not able to make up for this when they finally have something good. And this is even more the case when they have short money, because they can't get enough value with their short stacks to make up for all those folds in small pots.

If a short stacked nit was playing a rigorous and skilful ninja short stack style (lots of limp reraising preflop and check-raise jamming postflop, trapping dead money in the pot etc) then I agree they would be very tough to beat (and would spoil the game). But the overwhelming majority of these guys do not use their short-stack as a powerful weapon in this way. Instead they dribble.

[SuuPRlim]

If PLO is a "nuts/monsters only" game then what is 5/6O?

6O is a nuts+re-draw make the punters think you're gambling with them but really you're just waiting for them to over-commit with a hand that looks a LOT better than it is.

4O people, PUNISH THE NITS.

It's rare to be deep enough in UK casinos to punish them. Anyway I am at work sober and prefer this thread when I am plastered.

its defo not rare in the games i play/have played in over last couple of years, and secondly you dont need to be deep to punish the nits, in fact its actually easier tp punish (although you cant punish quite as severely) them shallow rather than deep.

[Boba Fett]

Whats the difference between Padooki and Badugi?

[SuuPRlim]

Whats the difference between Padooki and Badugi?

Padooki is pot limit whereas badugi traditionally fixed limit,

the games in terms of structure are identical, 4 rounds of betting, and 3 draws, aim is to make best possible "pad/bad/ooki/ugi" hand which is a lowball, rainbow hand  (or other cominatronic possibilities) is the nuts, A235/A245/A345/A236/A246/A346/A256/A346/A456 and so on is the Nuts downwards.

In BADUGI, if you dont have a BADUGI (4 rainbow cards) you have a "3 Card BADUGI" i.e A233 would be an "A23 three-card badugi" so if I ended up with  i'd have an A34 three-card badugi.

in PADOOKI, if you dont have a PADOOKI (note a padooki, and a badugi mean the same thing lol) you have a "FLUSH" and these are ranked in the same way, so  would = a "9 flush" - also it doesn't matter how many of each suit you have, it's either rainbow (a padooki) or a flush (not a padooki).

That is the fundamental difference in the game. The difference this makes to the play of it is that Padooki encouages a lot more bluffing, in badugi you have a gd 3-card hand A35 for e.g you can draw draw draw then use your 3 card hand as a bluff catcher if needs be, so you can play a big draw for value as it does have some immediate value, in PADOOKI you might draw a 7 flush (strong hand) but you've got to break and keep drawing to your A34 draw, ith no gte that at the end of the draws your have any semblence of a hand to bluff-catch with (or have any SD valuee at all) you that i) encourages people to bluff you more after the 3rd draw as unlike in badugi you wont DEFO have a bluff-catcher, and ii) put you in a position where you have to bluff as well, as it's perfectly feasible you've had a sick draw and ended up with a K flush or a pair of 4's something with abso no value whatsoever.

Padooki just a much more action/gambling type game, nothign wrong with badugi at all it's a v nice game, its just structured much more like a limit game than a big-bet drawing game like padooki is.

[Honeybadger]

Whats the difference between Padooki and Badugi?

The difference is in the way the hands are ranked.

In badugi, if no-one makes a 'badugi' (i.e. 4 unpaired cards of different suits) then the player with the best 3 card hand or 'incomplete' wins. Thus if player one is drawing to and player 2 is drawing to , if both players fail to make a complete badugi then player one wins because he has the best incomplete (3 card hand). The fourth card each player ends up with after the final change is not considered.

In padooki, all 4 cards are used at showdown even if no player makes a padooki. There is no such thing as an 'incomplete'. If no-one makes a padooki then the best 'flush' wins. A 'flush' means a 4 card unpaired hand that is not a padooki. Normal lowball rules apply. For example,
is a '8 flush', and is beaten by
which is a '7 flush'
Note that the second hand would lose under badugi rules since it has three cards of the same suit and is thus a '2 card incomplete'. But in padooki this does not matter - all 4 cards play, and if you do not have a padooki then it does not matter if you have more than two of the same suit.

[Honeybadger]

The best starting hand is a substantial favourite at badugi since it automatically wins if all players fail to improve during the draws. Thus always beats when both hands brick the final draw. This makes it much less strategically complex than the padooki version where all 4 cards play. In padooki the could catch a or even a (i.e. a pair up) on the final draw and get beaten by the which catches a . The first hand would either have a 'King flush' or a 'pair of threes' and both would lose to the 'Jack flush'.

The reason padooki is more complex strategically is due to the increased bluffing and snowing (standing pat without a padooki) opportunities that the difference in showdown rules creates.

[Boba Fett]

Good explanations. Thanks guys