12bb btn jam, sb calling range?

[cambridgealex]

Est his range to be this sort of thing 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J5s+,T6s+,95s+,85s+,74s+,64s+,54s,A2o+,K2o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o,87o

we're calling 11.5bbs to win 12+0.5+1+1 so 14.5 so we need 44.2% equity to b/e.

BB calls behind with 99+AJ+ ish (5%) so considering that and preserving stack etc, we'd rather have about 50% equity.

Which means we should call roughly: 33, A2s, A5o, K9o, K7s, QJo, QTs.

Seems on the lose side, but would only slice one/two hands of each group in game.

I called A3s and it felt looseish. Wouldn't have called K9s or A6o though.

Is that range the one you would be shoving in his shoes ie the one that he 'should' be shoving? in my limited experience it's remarkable how often we run into the 'top of his range' simply because he never shoves the 50% at the bottom of it.

It's wider than the range you should or I would be shoving, but this guy is overly aggro so i thought he would shove slightly wider.

and yes there's antes, which are including in the calculations. no antes, and we should call quite a bit tighter.

[cambridgealex]

yes A2o is 47% vs that range, A2s 50%, 3% is really quite significant in these spots. Definetely the difference between a clear call and a call fold, imo.

[MANTIS01]

Even so, would prefer to use my chips for raising rather than calling when the margins are so close and the oppos are bad

If we call and lose we can still use our chips for raising. Calling and winning gives us more of a chance to boss the table with 2x the the guy who has position on us. Against a bad player it's likely he will give us more opportunities to take his stack in the future but this is often overrated and in tournament poker you're giving playing into aggressive opponents hands if you react to his aggression by folding too much.

Against someone jamming loose, who is acting before us, we just have to take the gamble a bit wider than we otherwise would. By the time we wait for a big enough hand he will have stolen enough blinds to get up to a bigger stack, by which point he's narrowed his jamming range or stops jamming altogether. My first thought was 55+,A8o+,A5s+,KJo+,KTs+. I think that's still my thought actually.

Agree with everything you say but then again my points related to calling with 22/33, which you also muck right?

[LonOhRay]

Just call Nash although he's jamming wider

[wazz]

I don't know about you but I can only do Nash when I plug it into a calculator, certainly can't work it out off the top of my head when I'm playing a few tables, with the complication of a guy behind.

[cambridgealex]

I don't know about you but I can only do Nash when I plug it into a calculator, certainly can't work it out off the top of my head when I'm playing a few tables, with the complication of a guy behind.

Get the charts then

[LonOhRay]

I don't know about you but I can only do Nash when I plug it into a calculator, certainly can't work it out off the top of my head when I'm playing a few tables, with the complication of a guy behind.

I'm far from perfect but it's the easiest off table work you can do and doesn't take long, use indicators like 10bb utg 10b btn 15bb button etc and adjust slightly for different spots on the table

When you only have a few tables would be criminal not to have charts in background

[Young_gun]

Even so, would prefer to use my chips for raising rather than calling when the margins are so close and the oppos are bad

If we call and lose we can still use our chips for raising. Calling and winning gives us more of a chance to boss the table with 2x the the guy who has position on us. Against a bad player it's likely he will give us more opportunities to take his stack in the future but this is often overrated and in tournament poker you're giving playing into aggressive opponents hands if you react to his aggression by folding too much.

Against someone jamming loose, who is acting before us, we just have to take the gamble a bit wider than we otherwise would. By the time we wait for a big enough hand he will have stolen enough blinds to get up to a bigger stack, by which point he's narrowed his jamming range or stops jamming altogether. My first thought was 55+,A8o+,A5s+,KJo+,KTs+. I think that's still my thought actually.

Personally i don't see why suited makes that much of a difference, im not calling A3o or suited here. True  its ok by math's thats assuming you have his range spot on...

Being suited matters because it gives us more equity! Fairly standard when constructing calling ranges to be wider with suited hands than unsuited. When we're all-in preflop, playability matters less, i.e. being suited with stacks left to play for is good because it gives us more chances to win the pot by semibluffing draws, but the raw hot-and-cold equity of being suited is significant.

I am aware of that sir, but its not alot of difference generally around 2%. dont think that factors into the equation that much.

[Young_gun]

yes A2o is 47% vs that range, A2s 50%, 3% is really quite significant in these spots. Definetely the difference between a clear call and a call fold, imo.

Again 3% is not that much different and whose to say you have his range spot on, you could be 3% out for all we know

[Jables20]

Est his range to be this sort of thing 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J5s+,T6s+,95s+,85s+,74s+,64s+,54s,A2o+,K2o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o,87o

we're calling 11.5bbs to win 12+0.5+1+1 so 14.5 so we need 44.2% equity to b/e.

BB calls behind with 99+AJ+ ish (5%) so considering that and preserving stack etc, we'd rather have about 50% equity.

Which means we should call roughly: 33, A2s, A5o, K9o, K7s, QJo, QTs.

Seems on the lose side, but would only slice one/two hands of each group in game.

I called A3s and it felt looseish. Wouldn't have called K9s or A6o though.

Is that range the one you would be shoving in his shoes ie the one that he 'should' be shoving? in my limited experience it's remarkable how often we run into the 'top of his range' simply because he never shoves the 50% at the bottom of it.

It's wider than the range you should or I would be shoving, but this guy is overly aggro so i thought he would shove slightly wider.

and yes there's antes, which are including in the calculations. no antes, and we should call quite a bit tighter.

Isn't it better to reshove than call or is that implied? In this hand I would reshove 33+,A4s+,KTs+,QJs,A7o+,KJo+ which is a little tight vs your estimated shoving range for the BU, but then we're relying on BB to call off only 5% and BU shoving hands like T6s, T8o, J5s.

[cambridgealex]

Sorry yes, re shoving not calling. That range seems more or less what I'd do too so! Just threw in A2s and A3s as well.

[outragous76]

Sorry yes, re shoving not calling. That range seems more or less what I'd do too so! Just threw in A2s and A3s as well.

its kind of irrelevant as he has to call it off to any shove behind anyway

I don't mind calling if we call with AA when deeper (or exposed to deeper behind) as it can induce later

[Jables20]

Sorry yes, re shoving not calling. That range seems more or less what I'd do too so! Just threw in A2s and A3s as well.

its kind of irrelevant as he has to call it off to any shove behind anyway

I don't mind calling if we call with AA when deeper (or exposed to deeper behind) as it can induce later

I'm not sure if it is that irrelevant. With these exact stack sizes is it better to call/call or reshove this range? Bearing in mind that with this SB range as a whole we're happy when the BB folds. If calling looks stronger in that it implies that you're a lot more nutted than A4s, maybe that makes call/call better? Might get a few more folds from 77/88/AJo with flats.

[outragous76]

Sorry yes, re shoving not calling. That range seems more or less what I'd do too so! Just threw in A2s and A3s as well.

its kind of irrelevant as he has to call it off to any shove behind anyway

I don't mind calling if we call with AA when deeper (or exposed to deeper behind) as it can induce later

I'm not sure if it is that irrelevant. With these exact stack sizes is it better to call/call or reshove this range? Bearing in mind that with this SB range as a whole we're happy when the BB folds. If calling looks stronger in that it implies that you're a lot more nutted than A4s, maybe that makes call/call better? Might get a few more folds from 77/88/AJo with flats.

its irrelevant from the point that we can never fold. whether you call/ call or rejam for me depends on your M.O. and your general play along with game flow. I would always call/call when the decision isn't there to be made after he jams

[cambridgealex]

Agree with jables' post