Staking Resolution - The Bank Of Timex (w-interview)

[The Camel]

I just don't get why people have taken such personal insult to his attempts. From my perception of it he said "I think the market's WRONG, and I'm going to prove it" he then proposehow he was going to prove it, by making money from the gap between current price and market equilibrium. If he CAN profit from that, then market's wrong and there isn't much room to dispute that, as a perfect market has no room for a middle man.

AFAIK he will be breaking american gambling laws - as you may or may not know the "wire act" makes it illegal for people to gamble "in proxy" in america.  So he's had to abandon his plans, not like this was a company he was gonna launch on the stock market or anything it was a practical exercise designed to make a point. If anything I thought he deserved a bit of credit for stumping up his own money to try prove a point he's made publically on numerous occasions. I've made the some point (albeit less vocally) but you won't find me putting my cash behind the opinion (for a couple of reasons)

Why is it for Timex to decide if the market is over priced?

Who's job is it? Surely it's the task of whoever operates within the market, and he falls into that category.

I just don't understand what he did to cause such controversy.

If I put up a staking thread at 1.4 and Key's comes along and said "this is bad value at 1.4 you have done nothing to justify this markup" I came back and reeled off a huge list of reasons why I'm worth 1.4, and have a 100% ROI and he replied with "OK. Buy 20% of yourself of me 1.25" and I refused what does that tell you about my confidence in that mark-up?

The "scraping up my ROI" quote did it for me.

So we're annoyed at his choice of phrase. No problem with the point he was making?

No problem with the point in general.

Big problem with "outing" individual players as it looks very much like bullying to me.

That's not his point though...

But it's the way he proved his point.

To sell JJ Lui's action at 0.9 is just plain mean. Especially as she has never sold action (afaik)

This has been taken a bit out of context.  He was asked to quote for her, it isn't like he just chose her as an example.  I'd say it would be correct to point the finger at the person who asked for a quote, but not at Timex.

True, someone asked for himself & her.  He replied with 1.45 for the guy and 0.93 for JJ, no malice whatsoever.

I'm not saying it's malicious, I'm saying it shows zero empathy.

PM the quote, text it. Do whatever you like.

Just don't humiliate her by saying you think she's a losing player in front of thousands of readers.

[Woodsey]

I really don't get the problem? I'm a losing player at approx $20+ buy in and a winner below that, I don't care if anyone says that, its the truth who cares? Are we all turning into pussies that can't deal with the truth?

[The Camel]

I really don't get the problem? I'm a losing player at approx $20+ buy in and a winner below that, I don't care if anyone says that, its the truth who cares? Are we all turning into pussies that can't deal with the truth?

From a cynical point of view "don't tap the glass" springs to mind.

From a human point of view I would guess 99% of poker players (especially pros) wouldn't like it broadcast to the world that they are losing players. It's no ones business except hers.

You are one of kind Woodsey.

[redarmi]

I really don't get the problem? I'm a losing player at approx $20+ buy in and a winner below that, I don't care if anyone says that, its the truth who cares? Are we all turning into pussies that can't deal with the truth?

From a cynical point of view "don't tap the glass" springs to mind.

From a human point of view I would guess 99% of poker players (especially pros) wouldn't like it broadcast to the world that they are losing players. It's no ones business except hers.

You are one of kind Woodsey.

I can kinda understand this view in this situation but what if she had tried to sell action which is what he is doing in most cases?  Surely then the player is fair game?  I really don't get the issue in general.  If you put yourself at the vagaries of the market then surely it is a bit thinskinned if the market, albeit in a different form, judges you poorly.

[cambridgealex]

Yeh I think that's a bit mean of him tbh. Pm the quote is fine.

The whole thing is a tiny bit mean. There's almost no-one in this community id feel comfortable doing this for.

[cambridgealex]

Yeh it's defo different if she's put herself out there and sold action (even if it was at spot)

[George2Loose]

Yeh I think that's a bit mean of him tbh. Pm the quote is fine.

The whole thing is a tiny bit mean. There's almost no-one in this community id feel comfortable doing this for.

Weren't u going to do this for DTD comps?

[pleno1]

Yeh I think that's a bit mean of him tbh. Pm the quote is fine.

The whole thing is a tiny bit mean. There's almost no-one in this community id feel comfortable doing this for.

the whole thing cant be that mean. 99% of the cases he tells people they are profitable at nl tournaments.

[cambridgealex]

Yeh I think that's a bit mean of him tbh. Pm the quote is fine.

The whole thing is a tiny bit mean. There's almost no-one in this community id feel comfortable doing this for.

Weren't u going to do this for DTD comps?

No I was going to sell action in day two sweats

[The Camel]

I really don't get the problem? I'm a losing player at approx $20+ buy in and a winner below that, I don't care if anyone says that, its the truth who cares? Are we all turning into pussies that can't deal with the truth?

From a cynical point of view "don't tap the glass" springs to mind.

From a human point of view I would guess 99% of poker players (especially pros) wouldn't like it broadcast to the world that they are losing players. It's no ones business except hers.

You are one of kind Woodsey.

I can kinda understand this view in this situation but what if she had tried to sell action which is what he is doing in most cases?  Surely then the player is fair game?  I really don't get the issue in general.  If you put yourself at the vagaries of the market then surely it is a bit thinskinned if the market, albeit in a different form, judges you poorly.

Still don't like it, it is after all just one guys opinion.

It is just his opinion has a disproportionate amount of weight attached to it because he happens to have a great deal of money (or more likely, rich friends)

[SuuPRlim]

Yeh I think that's a bit mean of him tbh. Pm the quote is fine.

The whole thing is a tiny bit mean. There's almost no-one in this community id feel comfortable doing this for.

I agree. however this doesn't mean he isn't making a good point and a very interesting and potentially big statement for the future of the marketplace.

The discussion of those points has been pretty much buried ITT though.

I don't really disagree with the principal of anything anyone's said though... Just think we've missed the most relevant points.

[Doobs]

I really don't get the problem? I'm a losing player at approx $20+ buy in and a winner below that, I don't care if anyone says that, its the truth who cares? Are we all turning into pussies that can't deal with the truth?

From a cynical point of view "don't tap the glass" springs to mind.

From a human point of view I would guess 99% of poker players (especially pros) wouldn't like it broadcast to the world that they are losing players. It's no ones business except hers.

You are one of kind Woodsey.

Is she really going to be that upset that one person thinks she is around average* at the WSOP?  Surely she can cope with that?  I probably get labelled useless several times a month and it is years since I ever did anything other than smirk at the person doing it.  

It isn't like he got personal and called her a tosser either, just quoted a price to someone who asked.

I sat at her table a few years ago, and from what I remember she played OK.  She also has a Herbie Mob that most players would be proud of, so doubt she'll be that bothered that someone from the younger generation thinks she is no longer any good.  I am sure there must be plenty of players out there who think the same about me, and I probably have a raft of incorrect notes on people just because they once massacred one hand, or had a bad hour.  

I really can't see how other people at the table thinking you are terrible is anything other than a good thing for her either.  It is definitely the image I try to project at live tables when I sit down.    

* and most people are going to be around average, no matter what we read on the staking boards.

[The Camel]

I really don't get the problem? I'm a losing player at approx $20+ buy in and a winner below that, I don't care if anyone says that, its the truth who cares? Are we all turning into pussies that can't deal with the truth?

From a cynical point of view "don't tap the glass" springs to mind.

From a human point of view I would guess 99% of poker players (especially pros) wouldn't like it broadcast to the world that they are losing players. It's no ones business except hers.

You are one of kind Woodsey.

Is she really going to be that upset that one person thinks she is around average* at the WSOP?  Surely she can cope with that?  I probably get labelled useless several times a month and it is years since I ever did anything other than smirk at the person doing it.  

It isn't like he got personal and called her a tosser either, just quoted a price to someone who asked.

I sat at her table a few years ago, and from what I remember she played OK.  She also has a Herbie Mob that most players would be proud of, so doubt she'll be that bothered that someone from the younger generation thinks she is no longer any good.  I am sure there must be plenty of players out there who think the same about me, and I probably have a raft of incorrect notes on people just because they once massacred one hand, or had a bad hour.  

I really can't see how other people at the table thinking you are terrible is anything other than a good thing for her either.  It is definitely the image I try to project at live tables when I sit down.    

* and most people are going to be around average, no matter what we read on the staking boards.

As I said earlier, it's the undue amount of weight which is attached his view.

It's not like me sitting at the hooker bar having a beer with Lil Dave and saying "God, that Doobs is a terrible player"

It's like Timex's opinion has suddenly become the official ranking of how good a player is.

[cambridgealex]

I'm not being a fanboy, but he is pretty well placed to judge, given his experience and place in the MTT community.

[redarmi]

He doesnt automatically become the arbiter though.  Others are welcome to join the same market and create a different equilibrium price.  That is the beauty of markets they will eventually settle at the correct price assuming they are allowed to work unencumbered.