confessions of a teenage grinder.

[dwayne110]

Nice, sensible advice Dave, fair play

[polerization]

I cant really talk with any intelligence  on your poker game right now at all ofc, IDK your bankroll, living expenses etc but 25c/50c will require a decent amount of volume to pay your way, you'll find a lot of your winnings will go towards expenses (obviously the freedom poker gives you will result in you wanting to enjoy yourself a little more - I have some experience of this ) so you won't be able to move up that easily, which means you'll be spending much of your time just grinding to pay rent. Pretty dull way to live at 19 imo.

I just can't stress enough how depressing poker is when you NEED to win, and DONT, and how incredible it is when you DON'T NEED to win, but DO. This is why I'm strongly advising you keep on it with something else for the meanwhile, to ease pressure and aid your enjoyment and whilst you're finding a game you can win in, and learning and experimenting in different type of poker.

John's staking arrangement with Pleno was, imo, the worst thing for him (in heingsight, at the time I thought it was incredible as well) any sort of staking agreement for you at the moment would be a very bad idea, just take your time, build it up and work up slowly. There is a lot of rush these days to get staked when it's a huge strain on your mental approach.

Patience Patience Patience.

In regards to coaching etc, I don't coach really anymore not worth it, although I do sessions with people I like you can add me on skype if you like (same name as here) and if you want to ask about a hand (as long as its not a SnG hand you're better off asking your nextdoor neighbour lol) then il be glad to talk it through with you.

Just playing loads and thinking objectively about situations, don't focus on the badbeats and suckouts and think about your overall game and which situations (might be as small as times you call from the SB and fold the flop etc) are the ones you never seem to win.  When you play and play the same games the same sort of spot continues to arise and you always seem to lose the pot you gotta think, what am I doing there, why do I always lose that pot? and so on.

I hope none of this seems like a dig btw, I have been asked recently for an interview "what is the one piece of advice you would give yourself when you were just starting now" and the answer to it is that I just wish I'd had someone on board with a little bit of realism - I actually had a job well into when i was playing poker full time and it was a great decision as much as it didn't feel like it was at the time. You got a great chance to get to the right place much quicker than I did (chances are you;re prolly naturally a better player than me too) but don't rush yourself or get too carried away cos it'll just cause you a LOT of stress!

Obviously one of the best times of my life was when I was just starting out rocking around with Jamie and Ash scrapping about so I'm really just saying you gotta enjoy this time of poker and dont criple your morale with too much pressure.

Thanks for the advice and i really need to get skype set up as a lot of people use it but this would be majorly helpful, think i saw you sat down in a game at DTD like a big 1/2 or something not sure haha but i really feel that unless it was a huge upswing i can win at a high enough level to support myself (living expenses are so low) plus i can move from my current job to a store in Nottingham if i need to but don't really want to do this i really hate working and always end up arguing with people especially managers, the sample size i have is quite small about 5-7k hands on BWIN and won like $400 so 16 bi over this sample size felt i had a fair share of bad beats/mistakes (soon to be sorted working on the game a lot )  I don't want to sound naive or anything but i think i can win at a high enough rate to pay all my rent and stuff then be able to gain in my role i find it really easy to put volume in and the 8 hours id normally spend at work could be spent earning double as mucch at home, this is obv a stupid thought when i could also lose but its a horrible feeling having earnt like £200 in like a 5 hour session on tuesday night go to work to earn $40 on the wednesday for 8+ hours work.

[polerization]

Nice, sensible advice Dave, fair play

I get this is amazing advice and if i am finding it to hard after the first month/2 then i will get a job/carry on with current job thanks for all the comments though guys.

[dwayne110]

" but its a horrible feeling having earnt like £200 in like a 5 hour session on tuesday night go to work to earn $40 on the wednesday for 8+ hours work."

This reminds me of a point Sam Grafton raised in his wel,l about young poker players who might struggle to enter/re-enter the employment market because of (a) lack of employment history on CV whilst playing poker full-time and (b) the difficulty to get used to a standard hourly rate of pay in a normal job when used to much higher levels of cash playing poker.

It's just so important to keep perspective and remember that only a very small % of poker players actually make a significant living from the game. This is NOT to say you shouldn't pursue your dreams etc, if you really want to play poker long-term then by all means do so - but why not play it as your main hobby while working at the same time, gradually working your way up?
Unless you're very well rolled, playing poker as a living with the pressure of having to win to pay rent etc could put you in difficult circumstances and possibly put you off the game long term. I think it's fair to say that poker plays are more likely to play their A game if they don't have to win.

I also think it cannot be under-estimated how much having a normal job & working for a living at an early age enhances appreciation for the value of money, as well as being character-building.

[polerization]

" but its a horrible feeling having earnt like £200 in like a 5 hour session on tuesday night go to work to earn $40 on the wednesday for 8+ hours work."

This reminds me of a point Sam Grafton raised in his wel,l about young poker players who might struggle to enter/re-enter the employment market because of (a) lack of employment history on CV whilst playing poker full-time and (b) the difficulty to get used to a standard hourly rate of pay in a normal job when used to much higher levels of cash playing poker.

It's just so important to keep perspective and remember that only a very small % of poker players actually make a significant living from the game. This is NOT to say you shouldn't pursue your dreams etc, if you really want to play poker long-term then by all means do so - but why not play it as your main hobby while working at the same time, gradually working your way up?
Unless you're very well rolled, playing poker as a living with the pressure of having to win to pay rent etc could put you in difficult circumstances and possibly put you off the game long term. I think it's fair to say that poker plays are more likely to play their A game if they don't have to win.

I also think it cannot be under-estimated how much having a normal job & working for a living at an early age enhances appreciation for the value of money, as well as being character-building.

Guess this is correct really feel i have done this over the last year found working so hard though, think the idea of freedom is what appeals to me in poker im incedibly driven to persue this dream and its all ive really wanted to do inthe last year, sort off made a promise to my mum that i wont just be stuck in a rut of going busto, rebuilding, shot taking and going busto again if it doesnt work out over the first year then i will be done with poker and it will become a hobby, but i feel i have a really good opportunity to 'shot take' this year im rolled to play the stakes im on about currently playing, the. I am backed for live events so find this will really help.

Thank you too you all though keep the comments coming! Love the pressure hahaha

[dwayne110]

fair enough pal, good luck with it!

[polerization]

Thanks for all the comments anyway guys not going to be able to post for a couple of day ( work all nighter, sleep, all nighter again) monday im looking at my appartment in Nottingham im so excited for this then i go away wednesday wooooooop! Cant wait but looking forward to getting back so i can start my grind and work like hell to build a bankroll/put myself in an amazing position for when i go to notts. just posting to say any questions or comments would be appreciated and helpful

[SuuPRlim]

Thanks for the advice and i really need to get skype set up as a lot of people use it but this would be majorly helpful, think i saw you sat down in a game at DTD like a big 1/2 or something not sure haha but i really feel that unless it was a huge upswing i can win at a high enough level to support myself (living expenses are so low) plus i can move from my current job to a store in Nottingham if i need to but don't really want to do this i really hate working and always end up arguing with people especially managers, the sample size i have is quite small about 5-7k hands on BWIN and won like $400 so 16 bi over this sample size felt i had a fair share of bad beats/mistakes (soon to be sorted working on the game a lot )  I don't want to sound naive or anything but i think i can win at a high enough rate to pay all my rent and stuff then be able to gain in my role i find it really easy to put volume in and the 8 hours id normally spend at work could be spent earning double as mucch at home, this is obv a stupid thought when i could also lose but its a horrible feeling having earnt like £200 in like a 5 hour session on tuesday night go to work to earn $40 on the wednesday for 8+ hours work.

I'm not suggesting keeping a job you really don't like btw - I'm suggesting keeping something else that isn't poker, maybe like a course of some sort or better still a job you actually enjoy/might gain some life skills etc - sitting and playing poker 8 hours in a day is actually really really hard (ok it's "easy" to do) but the thing that makes it different to a normal job is in that 8 hours every hour you lose focus/play badly then your wages turn into NEGATIVE. I still struggle to this day to play consistently well in sessions longer than 3 hours. Even in a full time job who can honestly say that there level of work in an 8 hour day NEVER EVER drops?

If you got the bankroll to play what you're playing atm and wanna go get stuck into it then defo go for it, just don't shut everything else off cos poker isn't going anywhere! And it does sound pretty fkn exciting tbh so I dont wanna dampen the high morale by being all Captain Sensible. Very best of luck!!

BTW - why do you always end up arguing with people? This doesn't sound healthy for poker lol poker can make the worlds calmest man wanna kill people! In all seriousness though if that's true think long and hard about why? There is no tool out there quite like good social skills.

[polerization]

Thanks for the advice and i really need to get skype set up as a lot of people use it but this would be majorly helpful, think i saw you sat down in a game at DTD like a big 1/2 or something not sure haha but i really feel that unless it was a huge upswing i can win at a high enough level to support myself (living expenses are so low) plus i can move from my current job to a store in Nottingham if i need to but don't really want to do this i really hate working and always end up arguing with people especially managers, the sample size i have is quite small about 5-7k hands on BWIN and won like $400 so 16 bi over this sample size felt i had a fair share of bad beats/mistakes (soon to be sorted working on the game a lot )  I don't want to sound naive or anything but i think i can win at a high enough rate to pay all my rent and stuff then be able to gain in my role i find it really easy to put volume in and the 8 hours id normally spend at work could be spent earning double as mucch at home, this is obv a stupid thought when i could also lose but its a horrible feeling having earnt like £200 in like a 5 hour session on tuesday night go to work to earn $40 on the wednesday for 8+ hours work.

I'm not suggesting keeping a job you really don't like btw - I'm suggesting keeping something else that isn't poker, maybe like a course of some sort or better still a job you actually enjoy/might gain some life skills etc - sitting and playing poker 8 hours in a day is actually really really hard (ok it's "easy" to do) but the thing that makes it different to a normal job is in that 8 hours every hour you lose focus/play badly then your wages turn into NEGATIVE. I still struggle to this day to play consistently well in sessions longer than 3 hours. Even in a full time job who can honestly say that there level of work in an 8 hour day NEVER EVER drops?

If you got the bankroll to play what you're playing atm and wanna go get stuck into it then defo go for it, just don't shut everything else off cos poker isn't going anywhere! And it does sound pretty fkn exciting tbh so I dont wanna dampen the high morale by being all Captain Sensible. Very best of luck!!

BTW - why do you always end up arguing with people? This doesn't sound healthy for poker lol poker can make the worlds calmest man wanna kill people! In all seriousness though if that's true think long and hard about why? There is no tool out there quite like good social skills.

Love this whole paragraph think everything youve said is really helpful and you havent just said bad points,

1) This for me feels like one big shot take im roled for it, i feel like this year is sort of going to prove to family members/friends that i am good at poker and this is what i want to be doing for a long time.

2) i tend to argue with people who have authority over me and try and use this to leverage there side of an argument when i am blatently right in a situation this doesnt really ever tend to be the case at the poker table (were someone has more power than you except chip stacks) im not going to lie and say yes im perfect at a table ive had quite a few blow ups in the past (friend cold called a 3bet pre with 84 op) i was a little mad lol, anyway this is something that i have tried to work in since reading the early part of alexs diary, but could also make for some fun reading

[kinboshi]

"I just can't stress enough how depressing poker is when you NEED to win, and DONT, and how incredible it is when you DON'T NEED to win, but DO."

Love that line.

[polerization]

Checkking out the house at 2 to see the place i will be starting to make my milliions next year, wow im so excited to be looking at this be more interesting in september though when ive already started grinding(printing money) then meeting my new room-mates fingers crossed pleaaaaaaaaaaaassssse get your results (to my friend!!!!) GLGLGLGL!

[VBlue]

GL with this.  Been catching up on your diary.  Hope you find what you want playing the game for a living.  Some absolutely top-notch input from lil'Dave (as always) here which you would do well to heed.  You seem to be gracious and realistic enough to do so.

[Rexas]

What's up buddy, I've been a bit of a lurker on this diary since it started. My name's Matt, and when I was your age (like a year or two ago) I was doing my emotional nuts in a minimum wage job working 65+ hours a week. I still think my boss back then is the nastiest piece of work I have ever come across, and eventually I ended up walking out and turned to poker as my income. I'm now one of the most regular dtd goers and am getting towards my second year of "being a lolpro".

My two cents on this thing Dave bought up about having a job before is that I would not be the person I am today without that experience. Whilst I hated pretty much every minute of it, it has given me an appreciation of money and a desire to "make it" that has yet to be shaken. I've had some very fun moments after big losing sessions, and most notably after big winnings ones, where I've been on the way home and it's suddenly hit me that I'd just made/lost months worth of wages in the space of a few hours. The fact that I can now comfortably put a months earnings over the line with no other way of winning a pot can be pretty frightening, and has at times kept me away from some of the bigger games, despite the fact that I am fairly comfortably "rolled" for them.

My advice to you would be to take things very slowly, and try and create a network of friends with whom you can discuss hands and just lean on if you need some consolation, and revel in how wonderful this game can make you feel when you win. I've made the mistake of appearing to forget these people before, and it has been emotionally kinda expensive. Also, find a 24hr McDonalds, those places are the nuts for post session reviews.

Finally, the poker lifestyle has a habit of making you very, very desensitised to money. You will, at some stage, go through a troubled relationship with another form of gambling if you aren't careful, as I'm sure many of your readers have, as have I. Remember that poker muggles are not used to seeing money in the same way as we do, and remember to try not to make decisions based solely on the game. Instead of getting embroiled in playing the toughest and the biggest games, play to your bankroll and play to your comfort zones. As soon as those little betting disks start to sound more like money than just numbers, it's time to step down.

Good luck, I'll be following this with interest and hopefully meeting you at the tables sometime soon. I'm the nit who never shuts up, and has literally no fashion sense.

[CHIPPYMAN]

AND ALSO
1) don't moan
2) don't storm off if u get bad beat
3) don't tilt
4) don't drink while playing live
5) always smile , even if u are loosing

Good luck

[theprawnidentity]

AND ALSO
1) don't moan unless you go all Hellmuth cause that's just funny make sure you play like the sickest mofo in the room!
2) don't storm off if u get bad beat if it annoys you, walk away and order a milk & coke and some chocolate chip brownie biscuits from the bar make sure that everyone knows you're sickest mofo in the room.
3) don't tilt you WILL tilt at some point in one form or another - just don't let it show GII with non sooted deuces at all available opportunities for the aforementioned reasons
4) don't drink alcohol while playing live or online  Tell anyone who will listen that you dropped 10 large and what?
5) always smile , even if u are loosing never smile, not even when you are winning. Must. Be. Serious.   Leave with an entourage of heavies and hookers.

Good luck

FYP

FYP