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Yahtzee theory
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Topic: Yahtzee theory (Read 1985 times)
AdamM
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Yahtzee theory
«
on:
July 05, 2013, 12:05:01 PM »
I have a friend who says Yahtzee is pure luck.
I'm asserting that you can apply some of the same princuiples as you can to poker to give an edge.
The example I've given though is way beyond my maths.
Please help me work this out.
you have two spaces left to fill, the large straight and the four of a kind.
your first roll is 1,2,4,5,5
Can we work out if the correct strategy is to take two rolls at the 3 with the single dice (which I make a 1/3 chance of hitting), or do we keep the two
and roll for the four of a kind on
.
A factor probably needs to be that the large straight awards 40 points, but the four of a kid will award 20 points, plus the value of the fifth dice (average 3.5 presumably) but on the occasions we make a bonus Yahzee, we get that 23.5 plus a 50 bonus.
anyone brave enough to take this on for me?
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Laxie
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #1 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:06:50 PM »
I'm going for the 4 of a kind, but that's probably wrong.
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I bet when Hugh Hefner dies, you won't hear anyone say, "He's in a better place."
Jon MW
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #2 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:18:55 PM »
lol it's largely luck but there's definitely game theory behind it where you can maximise your points by taking the right options at the right time.
I don't think I can be quite interested enough to work out how much luck you'd need to overcome perfect strategy but I'd assume it wouldn't be that high.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 blonde MTT League August Champion
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AdamM
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #3 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:22:29 PM »
I appreciate the edge is quite small, but I'm now interested in this specific problem.
I gave it a shot, but my brain started sweating.
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AdamM
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #4 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:25:15 PM »
and I guess it'd also be interesting (well, kind of) to also work out the same but with a first roll of 2,3,4,5,5 making you up and down on the large straight
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Doobs
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #5 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:30:41 PM »
Quote from: AdamM on July 05, 2013, 12:25:15 PM
and I guess it'd also be interesting (well, kind of) to also work out the same but with a first roll of 2,3,4,5,5 making you up and down on the large straight
Must be best to go for the high straight with low as back up?
Your mate think poker is random too?
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Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
Acidmouse
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #6 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:32:31 PM »
I play a bit online and the good players know what score to take and when to gamble, lots of tactics and thinking tbh. I am sure there is game theory math online somewhere
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AdamM
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #7 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:33:28 PM »
Assume this is the last two slots.
Short straight, fives on the top, all gone.
She's not a poker player, but think she accepts the skill factor in poker.
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Doobs
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #8 on:
July 05, 2013, 12:42:21 PM »
It is straight probability and not really game theory. Probability of hitting open ender with one throw is 1/3.
Probability of two more
in one throw of 3 dice is 1/6^2 x 5/6 x 3, which is much lower.
Etc.
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Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
Tal
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"He's always at it!"
Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #9 on:
July 05, 2013, 01:08:15 PM »
Quote from: Doobs on July 05, 2013, 12:42:21 PM
It is straight probability and not really game theory. Probability of hitting open ender with one throw is 1/3.
Probability of two more 5
s in one throw of 3 dice is 1/6^2 x 5/6 x 3, which is much lower.
Etc.
This.
(Also got rid of that five of spades thing that really winds me up - sorry!)
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"You must take your opponent into a deep, dark forest, where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one"
Simon Galloway
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #10 on:
July 05, 2013, 01:12:08 PM »
Used to be several people in the workplace with electronic yahtzee games, so there were lots of bets/challenges comps. Without overdoing the maths, there was definitely an edge to be had. Chasing the bonus Yahtzee (100 points) was the gambit, and better players were more readily prepared to put zero's in their 1's or 2's in the top half as required. 2,3,4,5,x was a pretty good roll, small straight locked up and a mathematical fav to make the long straight in 2 rolls. Other than that, chase the yahtzee ftw as default, but similar to golf matchplay, be prepared to deviate according to how the opponent is faring.
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https://www.rocketmiles.com/refer/SIMONGALLOWAY22
Tal
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #11 on:
July 05, 2013, 01:15:50 PM »
http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2006-2007/Probability/Yahtzee.htm
There are loads of others if you give it a quick Google.
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"You must take your opponent into a deep, dark forest, where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one"
Claw75
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #12 on:
July 05, 2013, 04:22:41 PM »
Quote from: AdamM on July 05, 2013, 12:05:01 PM
on the occasions we make a bonus Yahzee, we get that 23.5 plus a 50 bonus.
I'm useless as far as this kind of maths is concerned. Isn't a bonus yahtzee 100 points though? I'd be giving that a shot. Would probably go for the high straight if i was open ended. Really fancy a game now - it's been years!
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"Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon....no matter how good you are the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway"
AJR14
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Re: Yahtzee theory
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Reply #13 on:
July 10, 2013, 04:35:07 PM »
Quote from: Acidmouse on July 05, 2013, 12:32:31 PM
I play a bit online and the good players know what score to take and when to gamble, lots of tactics and thinking tbh. I am sure there is game theory math online somewhere
Online yahtzee?! This thread may have just made my social life take a hit. What sites are best and do you play for money or just fun v other people?
Used to play with family all the time, but havent played for ages.
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Once a thing's been done, it's been done. So why all this nostalgia? I mean, for the 60s and 70s, you know, looking backwards for inspiration, copying the past. How's that rock 'n' roll? Do something of your own. Start something new. Live your life now.
- John Lennon
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