Self ban on games online bookies & machines inside bookies

[aaron1867]

I'm creating a very healthy "wage" through horses for the last couple of month, but the profit is getting affected quite heavily by tampering with online BJ & roulette at quiet periods and even more do with the machines inside the bookies. It's incredibily frustrating because I haven't touched these things since March, now I'm hooked again lol.

Is it possible to self ban?

[KarmaDope]

I'm creating a very healthy "wage" through horses for the last couple of month, but the profit is getting affected quite heavily by tampering with online BJ & roulette at quiet periods and even more do with the machines inside the bookies. It's incredibily frustrating because I haven't touched these things since March, now I'm hooked again lol.

Is it possible to self ban?

I think on Sky you can self ban certain areas, yes. Not too sure about other online bookies.

As for High Street - no chance, they can barely police when you self ban yourself from the entire place so they arent gonna let you in to place bets and then keep an eye on you to throw you out when you try to play FOBT.

[tikay]

I'm creating a very healthy "wage" through horses for the last couple of month, but the profit is getting affected quite heavily by tampering with online BJ & roulette at quiet periods and even more do with the machines inside the bookies. It's incredibily frustrating because I haven't touched these things since March, now I'm hooked again lol.

Is it possible to self ban?

Online - you can Self-Exclude on any reputable Gaming Site that subscribes to Responsible Gaming & the likes of GamCare.

However, please be careful in deciding what period to Self-Exclude for - these Self-Excludes are NOT REVERSIBLE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. If you choose to Self-Exclude for 5 years, 5 years it is, no exceptions.

I have no idea what the situation is in B & M premises. Pretty hard to enforce a Self Exclude in such cases.  

[Tal]

Aaron, if you can't walk past a roulette table, you need to take responsibility for the situation and asking the online site you use to ban you isn't doing that. There will always be another little wheel somewhere for you to hand over your money.

If you have a gambling problem, you need to take ownership and deal with the causes, so that one day, hopefully, you can make conscious choices about whether you want a flutter in the future.

Barring yourself from your local pub and the corner shop won't stop you from being an alcoholic. And if the corner shop refuses to bar you, you can't hold them responsible for you drinking.

It's easily made light of, especially in a community such as this, but we all have to be vigilant of the perils we've all seen befall people.

Sorry that this is such a dark answer, but I hope it's taken in the spirit it's intended.

[aaron1867]

Thanks for the replies & definitely not disagreeing with you Tal, but such a funny situation. I don't log into a online bookie to play games or slots, just to place a bet on a certain sport (mainly horses), but if I'm in front of a desktop (this is mainly at Uni) I can take spins at certain games and its frustrating to see, because 9/10 it affects the weekly profit.

Machines are incred frustrating though, rennet posting on here months ago about them and was able to go 3-4 months without putting a penny in a d suddenly I'm on them again & I hate losing on them, I can take losing £100+ on a horse fine, but losing on these just does my nut in, funny thing is that I hate roulette anywhere else.

From the above replies I think it's impossible to ban machines, but going to get in touch with online to see if I can block interactive games, although loss on them is minimal, but frustrating at the same time.

[AdamM]

why is losing £100 on a horse different to losing £100 on a slot or table game?

[kinboshi]

why is losing £100 on a horse different to losing £100 on a slot or table game?

The end result is the same, but if he thinks he has an edge on the horses then he might feel the bet was good value and long-term +EV?  I guess it's the same as losing £100 on a hand of poker, rather than on the slots.  I'd say losing £100 on the slots is inevitable if you play them enough, whereas if you're a 'winning' poker player, losing £100 on a hand could be a cooler, variance, bad-beat, etc.

But I want to echo Tal's comments and if you can't stop playing these games you maybe ought to get help?

[FUN4FRASER]

why is losing £100 on a horse different to losing £100 on a slot or table game?

If you are half decent at poker and you pick your frequency and game selection carefully  you have a decent chance of winning over a period of time

If you are half decent at sports and horse betting and you pick your frequency and game selection carefully you also have a decent chance of winning over a period of time

Whilst I accept there are luck elements in both poker and betting on horses/ sports etc  with roulette and most casino house games (excl blackjack) you are hoping to get lucky all the time(no skill factor)

The worst offenders however are the terminals in bookmakers

The trouble with the terminals is there is no luck involved...the machines are not random and have a pre determined pay out. I know people that will wait till a player has put in a few hundred quid and try their luck...they may get lucky and win a little on the tail end of somebody elses loss but wins generally wins are few and far between .

I understand what happens in bookies in between races ,people get bored and start getting involved and before they know it they are in deep trying to recover loses from a terminal that's actually regulated by the bookies themselves.

Its estimated that at least 60 % of all high street bookmakers profit is now coming from these terminals and they are opening more and more branches just to accommodate these machines . They are allowed a max of 4 each shop but 60 % is an incredible figure

You may get lucky for a few spins  but percentage wise over a period of time   You Cannot Beat These Machines    FACT  !!

Aaron....seriously you need to give them a wide berth  immediately

[aaron1867]

Fraser has hit the nail on the head completely.

You go up to these machines and they have something like "72% win payout" and that is nowhere near the odds you should be getting when playing BJ or roulette and like Fraser says, these are not random number generator machines & the worst thing they are just completely expanding. The number of games they offer on these machines in unreal, they are adding several types of roulette and BJ (adding side bets) and even reward cards, I have probably span £2k on these over the last 3 weeks & I have not got anywhere near to a £5 reward LOL.

There is definitely a problem for me, it perhaps does not affect my life or even too much financially, but in the same terms they are, if you know what I am getting at. It was so frustrating to have 3-4 months off these & get back on board with them, damn you!

Lose £100 on a horse, dog, football, snooker, poker, live blackjack is all fine it happens, but lose £100 on these machines and it pisses me off much more than losing it elsewhere for the fact I know these are corrupt

[gouty]

The fobts are random but the game of roulette has a built in -EV margin.

If you get your head around the fact that every time you spin £10 on the machine you may as well throw 37 pence in the bin that may help. I used to play table games in the casino after poker or in breaks, but as I improved at poker and began to understand variance more it simply dawned on me how ridiculous it is to play games that have built in house edge.

Sports betting is different as although there is a house edge like bookies over rounds or betfairs commission there is still room for profit if you are very selective and can get on.

I have worked in betting shops for 24 years and never seen  a winning punter on fobts. There you are. Surely that is incentive enough not to play them.

[aaron1867]

The fobts are random but the game of roulette has a built in -EV margin.

If you get your head around the fact that every time you spin £10 on the machine you may as well throw 37 pence in the bin that may help. I used to play table games in the casino after poker or in breaks, but as I improved at poker and began to understand variance more it simply dawned on me how ridiculous it is to play games that have built in house edge.

Sports betting is different as although there is a house edge like bookies over rounds or betfairs commission there is still room for profit if you are very selective and can get on.

I have worked in betting shops for 24 years and never seen  a winning punter on fobts. There you are. Surely that is incentive enough not to play them.

Just before I break this post down, I just want to say this is not typical "aaron is right" attitude i'm going to get at, but I think you are wrong in the first bit, surely?

The odds in a casino on roulette & BJ are so much different to the mahcines in the bookies, the casino has a 0.? edge, whilst the machine is % payout, so before you get on you know you this machine will win daily. Surely if it was a random number generator then they can't guarantee what % they are going  to win or lose! You put £1000 into those machines, they are paying out £720.

I know there is no winner, hence why I want to quit.

I am pretty young age and I am one of the few that love horse racing & I am lucky enough not to go into the bookies and hit the machines like the younger generation, however I can hit them and just wish I didn't at all. Could you hazard a guess to how many little independent bookies have in their shops?

[Tal]

Hang on.

Say a fruit machine is 80% payout and the shop is open for 10 hours, taking £100 an hour from various poppers-in. What you are saying is, over the course of the day, every day it pays out exactly £800? That cannot be true and you're not a complete idiot, so that can't be what you mean.

Payout and house edge are one and the same (albeit one is the balance of the other). When you bet on a machine that has an 80% payout, you are effectively betting on an even money shot at 0.8-1. Some days you win a fortune, just as you can flip fifty heads in a row. Some days you lose your shirt, vest and nipple clamps. Mistress Variance decides which are which.

The machine can't win every single day. That wouldn't make sense, as unless there were a point where it refused to pay out any wins at all until it took £x more in (which regular punters would cotton on to), it couldn't regulate itself. What if no one played all day and then someone stuck one credit in? Would it be obliged to ensure the punter lost? No.

All it needs to do to be profitable is have the odds in its favour and as much money coming in as possible, to mitigate against variance. It sets the odds at A/1 and the payout at B/1, where A>B and, over an infinite sample...

Profit = N(A-B) where N is the number of pounds spent.

Random number generators just help the punter to know they can have a really good day, which is all we want to have a flutter.

By all means, tell me if I'm talking out of my posterior.

[AdamM]

The machines in the bookies are completely random.
They also run at very high RTPs. much closer to casino games than you think.
Usually in the high 90's
Can't explain the workings, but take it from a compliance manager in a slots development compay, they are
Still means you can't beat them, but the swings experienced will be very similar to those seen on a casino table game.
The edge is built into the maths, the same as they are in a table game.

Fruit machines in pubs are different. The are compensated, which is to say they adjust their behaviour based on their current RTP.
That absolutely doesn't happen in FOBTs

[aaron1867]

if these are random number generators, then how can they guarantee the payout?

A computer only does what you program to do it, then only does what you tell it to do when using it

[Tal]

if these are random number generators, then how can they guarantee the payout?

A computer only does what you program to do it, then only does what you tell it to do when using it

It is a guaranteed payout. Just not necessarily to you.

Otherwise, the only way it could guarantee doing it correctly would be, every time you put a pound in, it whirs, flashes some lights, makes a ding ding and then drops four twenty pence pieces into the tray for you.