Thoughts?

[celtic]

This isn't a ruling, well, it kinda is, but it was given after the event, and I'm happy that the right answer was given. Since it happened, I have heard people say that it's wrong, so I will let blonde punters have a go.

Utg raises, I call, short stack moves all in for less than a BB. Big blind calls too.

Flop is checked round. The turn is checked to me and I bet, BB folds, utg raiser calls. As this is happening, the all in guy stands up and mucks his cards, and goes away.

River. Check, I bet he folds, I win the pot.


Two questions.

Do I have to show my hand?

Should the all in be allowed to muck his cards during the hand?

[BorntoBubble]

Personally i think you should not have to show and the guy should definitely not muck during the hand. Not sure how you can give him any sort of penalty for doing so.

I would say you do have to show to claim the pot. I believe this will be one of them rulings that will change venue to venue

[Rexas]

I tend to go by the ruling that your cards are the receipt for the pot, in the interests of not chip passing etc, and because you have essentially reached a showdown at an all in situation, then you should have to show your cards to claim the pot (IMO). The fact that he has kinda breached the rules in standing up during the hand and mucking his cards doesn't change the fact that WE still have to go by the rules.

[NoCardDSC]

Yer, like born said, obviously he shouldn't/shouldn't be allowed to much while there is still action, but not much you can do about that.

As for having to show your cards, i also think it will differ from venue to venue. The norm would be show to claim i would imagine.

[Laxie]

When there's an all in, isn't it always 'show to claim'?  Any other ruling paves the way for collusion and chip dumping, regardless of the all in person mucking their cards (which the dealer never should've allowed imo).

[celtic]

I get that you need to show etc, there are two pots here, does that change anything? The all in guy had about half a big blind, the side pot was about 8x the main pot.

[luther101]

I would demand you commit an act of gross indecency on Lisa Hunt, whilst simultaneously showing your cards, to win that pot, Vin.

[MANTIS01]

I get that you need to show etc, there are two pots here, does that change anything? The all in guy had about half a big blind, the side pot was about 8x the main pot.

Doesn't change anything because you need to show your cards at showdown. The other guy has trapped off home cos he's been knocked out but you're in a showdown situation with him none the less.

And it doesn't really matter what the size is or whether it's very small. I try to explain this to my missus all the time

[nirvana]

Great thread brah

[snoopy1239]

1. I've seen different rules, but I like the one where you have to show your hand in order to win a pot.
2. Meh. I don't think so. Not sure how you can stop him anyway.

[I KNOW IT]

Unless the card room states you have to show, then you do not have to show.  The all in player has mucked and it has now become an uncontested pot. Asking to see a players hand is a privilege granted at the TD'S discretion and a player folding face down has now lost the right to ask.

The all in player should not be allowed to muck his hand. Why didn't the dealer stop this from happening?

[Cf]

I've mucked when all in before. Was down to 50 chips of 15,000 and was last hand before re-entries closed. Got 3 callers so was easy enough to fire my hand in the muck on the flop when the dealer wasn't looking.

Hands must be flipped at an all in showdown but I'm not sure there's a rule to prevent mucking before this showdown occurs.

My gut instinct says it shouldn't be allowed as its an easy form of chip passing. Though in my case that's obviously not what my intention was.