Stack merging

[theprawnidentity]

on a side note, given.your comment about it, is re-entry into the same Day One a good idea?

It doesn't matter when you can re-enter its still the same scenario.  But certainly for travelling players been able to re-enter on the same day several times should things get ugly can't be a bad thing?

[DTD-ACES]

Here are a few stats;

The average player played 1.24 times for the £100 Deepstacks, and 1.39 times for the Deepstack Mini, I would predict this to be 1.1 times for the £300.

On average only 33 players play an Online Day 1 and a Live Day 1

Therefore, multiple Day 1's Live and Online just give players more options to participate (fit in with work/personal schedules), in reality, generally players don't multi-entry loads of Day 1's just because there are more available, no matter what players claim/say they are going to do.

In my opinion allowing players to merge is better for the dynamics of the game - especially on the last level of a Day 1, rather than allowing same day re-entry which would be much better for hitting GTE's, but we believe changes the dynamics of the game more towards a + 1 re-buy rather than a re-entry.

We are trialing the merge concept, doesn't mean it will remain, most things continue to evolve naturally, often by these type of threads and discussions in the Club face to face, both really help us.

Cheers Simon

[iangascoigne]

    Cannot think of a business so  innovative and responsive to customer feedback.

[bookiebasher]

    Cannot think of a business so  innovative and responsive to customer feedback.

What about Bubbles massage parlour ?

[RED-DOG]

    Cannot think of a business so  innovative and responsive to customer feedback.

What about Bubbles massage parlour ?

Ooh! What have they invented?

[tikay]

    Cannot think of a business so  innovative and responsive to customer feedback.

What about Bubbles massage parlour ?

Ooh! What have they invented?

I am given to understand they satisfy their Customers.

[RED-DOG]

    Cannot think of a business so  innovative and responsive to customer feedback.

What about Bubbles massage parlour ?

Ooh! What have they invented?

I am given to understand they satisfy their Customers.

So I gather, but he said innovative and responsive.

[bookiebasher]

I am given to understand ( nice one Tony ) that although their's is the 'oldest profession' they
do adopt to customers needs and tackle any problems head on and with great enthusiasm.

For some members , far less worldly than you Tom , I am sure they are very innovative.

Would you like a last longer Tom.........at Dtd next time I see you obviously

[outragous76]

I am given to understand ( nice one Tony ) that although their's is the 'oldest profession' they
do adopt to customers needs and tackle any problems head on and with great enthusiasm.

For some members , far less worldly than you Tom , I am sure they are very innovative.

Would you like a last longer Tom.........at Dtd next time I see you obviously

 

[Woodsey]

    Cannot think of a business so  innovative and responsive to customer feedback.

What about Bubbles massage parlour ?

lol, that place is not far from me 

[RED-DOG]

I am given to understand ( nice one Tony ) that although their's is the 'oldest profession' they
do adopt to customers needs and tackle any problems head on and with great enthusiasm.

For some members , far less worldly than you Tom , I am sure they are very innovative.

Would you like a last longer Tom.........at Dtd next time I see you obviously

I have to warn you, I'm very experienced at grinding a short stack.

[bookiebasher]

I am given to understand ( nice one Tony ) that although their's is the 'oldest profession' they
do adopt to customers needs and tackle any problems head on and with great enthusiasm.

For some members , far less worldly than you Tom , I am sure they are very innovative.

Would you like a last longer Tom.........at Dtd next time I see you obviously

I have to warn you, I'm very experienced at grinding a short stack.

Good point Tom , forgot when you go allin , you always have the goods.

[Doobs]

Stack Merging

The long of short of the stack merging debate is that is doesn't really benefit anything other than the prizepool (and therefore the rest of the field).  All players are doing by merging stacks is putting a ton of money into the pot (as do they not receive another min cash).  So in the case of the £50 deepstack, a player attempting to merge stacks would buy in for another £50 (extra money for the prizepool) and then forfeit another £150 when he sacrifices his min cash upon completion of the merge (extra money for the prizepool).  Therefore the overall prizepool for other players is increased by £200.  I could write a whole essay on this subject and show how terrible it is ev-wise to attempt to merge stacks given these conditions (and I can go into details if that's really what people want), but rest assured that been able to merge stacks isn't benefitting the players with deeper pockets, its costing them money.

From a personal point of view, I see nothing wrong with allowing players to merge.  Poker isn't all about EV's and maximum profitability, it's also about enjoying youself and in some cases supporting the club.  In this case, offering the ability to merge stacks is enabling DTD to offer amazing guarantees and payout large sums of money for a modest investment.  Merging stacks are most certainly not your enemy, however.......

Re-Entry

The real culprit for you feeling short changed is this bad boy.  It is always going to be that case that allowing players to re-enter are going to provide more opportunities for the pro's to make day 2.  If you look at the WSOP Main Event and hypothetically make that into a reentry with 5 day 1's.  You have the capacity to end up with 5x Phil Iveys, 5x Big Dans and 5x any other big name sickos you care to name.  This will massively increase the ratio of pro's to recreational players as the pro's will be able to take 5x bullets vs a recreational 1 bullet.

This is a really extreme scenario and its certainly not what is going on at DTD.  Admittedly, you are going to get some of the better players taking 4 or 5 bullets thus increasing the ratio of better players.  But then consider the additional benefits of being able to offer a £50k prizepool for an investment of £60.  The tournaments run with this structure have attracted massive fields and therefore a ton of recreational players who are prepared to throw £60 at a chance to win £10k (or £115 at £20k).  At this level of buy in I would suggest that the amount of recreational players who come through the door to take a shot will far surpass all the 2/3/4/5 bullets taken by a handful of regulars.

Summary

I think DTD have got the structures and tournament set ups absolutely spot on for everyone involved.

I tried to keep this as simple as possible without going into detail, but anything doesn't make sense then feel free to come after me

200,000 stacks are worth just about twice the value of 100,000 stacks.  You definitely don't lose £150 by merging stacks, as you'd gain most/all of that back in the expected increase in your prize money.  If you are +EV in the tournament it is unlikely you are giving up much by stack merging and it is entirely plausible that better players could gain.

Poorer players will probably suffer a bit due to the presence of better players with bigger stacks, but it just isn't going to make that much difference. If it is only 10% of people (or so) who have a merged stack and some of them will be lucky bad players, then the difference in overall difficulty should be close to zero.

It is just an opportinity for a few people who like to vent about not very much.  If anything keeps the prize pools big and the overlays manageable at DTD it should be welcomed.

Cheers.

[cambridgealex]

"200,000 stacks are worth just about twice the value of 100,000 stacks"

I don't think they are Doobs.

If I double up first hand of a comp my EV in that comp doesn't double. Probably increases by a factor of about 1.3-1.5, in my opinion of course.

[Howezer]

I had planned my first trip down to DTD from Bradford a few weeks ago for one of these big tourneys. However, the day before going I thought I'd have another look at the website and this is when I noticed the 'stack merge' aspect of the competition. It was an action killer and it bothered me enough to cancel my trip and make alternative plans to play locally like I usually do. Interesting to look at the stats on how many people use the stack merge...I had assumed most players would be entering as many day 1s as possible. If I was in a position to play more day 1s than the average then I'd consider it again (don't agree that this is -ev for a +ev player). However, personally, I would be much more keen to come down and play in a straight forward structure with re-entry allowed on each day 1 but no stack merging, even if this meant a lower guarantee. I will make it down to DTD sometime soon anyhow (been playing live poker about a year now...sure I can find a structure I like one night...has to be done!). New to the forum btw....hi peeps!