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Author Topic: Keane v Viera  (Read 4118 times)
horseplayer
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2013, 09:19:55 AM »

Keane was a in a different league at Forest before his injuries just as good attacking as defensively

As for last night not the best documentary for me even though i am a fan of the itv 4 series as a whole

Dragged on a bit to long for what in essence was a bit of a love in
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« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2013, 09:23:09 AM »

@Amos. Man U fans gonna Man U fan. Smiley

Yea I could probs stretch to very good.. Too many cards at detriment to the team, not enough going forward for me and no loyalty to national side stops him ever being great for me.
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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2013, 09:58:38 AM »

who would win in a fight keith?0

I truly hated him when he played, now I doubt there is anyone in football I respect more.


Bold statement. Why do you respect him most highly in Football, or think you do? There are a lot of questionable things he did. Leaving Ireland at the start of a world cup finals in 2002, when they had a team with a legitimate chance of getting through to the quarters, because he didn't like a shoddy FAI setup? Could you imagine an English player doing the same and anyone thinking he could hold any ounce of respect after? Let alone offering a job on the national team some 11 years later?

I mean come on seriously. The man has a huge sense of inflated ego, carries on as if he is the authority on most things he says which can often come across as really arrogant, even if he is right.

He deliberately went out to hurt Haaland just because he gave him gyp when Keane injured HIMSELF in trying to trip Haaland in a previous match. Haaland didn't cover himself in glory by running over to him and slagging him off as he laid helpless on the floor, in the first incident at Elland Road but he was not to know the extent of Keane's injury and all he knew at the time was that he was clipped by a naughty off the ball challenge by Keane, justifying Haaland to be angry at the time.

Only because of the seriousness of the injury can you feel sorry for Keane. So for me Haaland has done nothing wrong here, but despite years since the incident and knowing all of the factors Keane still showed the immaturity to absolutely crunch him, running the higher risk of ending Haaland's career when he had the chance and he succeeded. Haaland was not worthy of that at all.

That sort of immaturity too, plagued him throughout his career, how many red cards did he get from acting the fool and not properly being able to deal with the intensity of a match. Granted it was his own personal intensity, when tamed, that made him such a force, but his immaturity shone through on many an occasion and still does today.

I borderline detest the man. And I am generally very placid. The fact he is a part of the Ireland setup now makes me feel a little sick tbh. How spineless are the FAI to let him in?

You only have to look at Vieira's reaction to the question of could you understand what was going through Keane's head when he decided to leave the world cup, he struggled for a while and responded no, after mentioning how proud he was to be a French player.

Yes he was a great leader of men on the pitch, an excellent player, but for not playing for Ireland in the World Cup, I think that is enough to lose nearly all respect for the man, especially over such pitiful reasons.  Yes he can get some of it back, but to rate him as one of the people you most respect in football, I am definitely baffled.

Hopefully that hasn't come across as OTT, I am not angry or anything, lol, I just thought i would state the case, and wonder how you can maintain your view despite him being capable of leaving his country at a World Cup finals.

I couldn't stand the man when he was playing for all the reasons you detail in this post.

But now I love the fella.

Talks more sense than 99.9% of analysts, doesn't suffer fools in the media and their inane questions, shows no fear in saying what he thinks is right.

But most all he's honest with zero bullshit.

How many players when asked about the Haaland incident all these years later would try and mount a defence for themselves or say how much they regret it.

Not Keano. He did what he thought was right and sticks by his judgement.

Love people with courage of their convictions.

Media wise, I am with you, I think he is very astute and he doesn't talk bull shit which is refreshing, and is why he is so popular, and why his view is often seen sometimes as the standard.

Sounds to me you just like and respect him as a pundit, of course too for his past playing ability.

Are you sure you can like a man that sticks to his guns and shows no remorse over a callous act? What is the redeeming feature here? He regrets nothing therefore there is a quaint dignity there? I can see how you like the fact he will not sway to anyone. If he thinks he's right, he is, in his eyes but what about when he is resoundingly wrong and morally vacant? Surely the subject matter of his resoluteness negates his approach to it? How can you respect him for that? His ignorance here is huge.

I have no idea how he can maintain such a high ground with his opinion, in the media, demanding respect, when he has been guilty of ending someone's career unjustly, without remorse and deserting his country when they needed him most? It is that too that grates me when he maintains a smug assurance of his views on ITV, I don't think he deserves the media spotlight, despite the content of what he says quite often being excellent. Even then though he is immature. He backs his views and when discussing can come across as abrupt, rude and self serving. He's almost a caricature.

I would pose the question of if any England player had left the World Cup set up in 2002, under similar circumstances, would he garner as much respect as Keane does now? No, I think would be the answer, he would probably be cast away and disrespected for good, even if he made valiant attempts to clear his rep, he would have done something unforgivable.

There is something that people really like about Keane, it is the outrageous conviction, as you said Keith, that he has of his views, but so many of them have been misguided, and a couple were irretrievably so. So i have no idea how he has still maintained this level of respect when he should have been discarded as a huge liability long ago.

Then there is the question of forgiveness of course. And that is probably what I need to be doing right now Smiley If he helps get Rep. of Ireland into the quarters of a big comp, then he has taken a huge stride to getting me back on board Smiley

Sorry for the rant there Keith, he really annoyed me when I was 13 years old, and didn't realise I still felt so strongly about him still, ha.

What Haaland did was very very nasty.

To taunt someone writhing around in agony with a busted ACR was disgusting.

Obviously he didn't deserve a broken leg for doing it, but I can understand why it annoyed Keane so much.

As for leaving the WC squad, well again it showed he had courage of his convictions.

He thought the prep was amatuer hour and gave them no chance of performing to the levels he expected.

So he walked. Hats off.

Very nasty? wow....


Someone kicks at you and falls to the floor injured I think you are entitled to have a go at them. Exactly same thing happened to a Leeds Rhinos player a few years back, Wigan player had a go at him while on the floor. He didn't know his ACL went bing?

Keane effectively ended Halaands careers, knowing how precious it is to footballers. He admitted his greatest regret was being out for a year with his ACL, so he knows how it would effect him.

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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2013, 10:29:05 AM »

Keane is an absolute wanker. Pretty disappointed tbh Keith. I love a man who stands by his convictions as well, but surely in the case of ending someone's career you can come out and say perhaps I was a little bit wrong. His behaviour with Ireland was an absolute joke and I can only echo Ants sentiments that any English player to do such a thing would be lambasted, and correctly so imo. Look how Becks suffered post 98.

I'd take Viera as a player but Keane in a fight and ldo as a pundit.
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« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2013, 12:26:28 PM »

i thought it was a pretty meh documentary btw.
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2013, 12:36:47 PM »

who would win in a fight keith?0

I truly hated him when he played, now I doubt there is anyone in football I respect more.


Bold statement. Why do you respect him most highly in Football, or think you do? There are a lot of questionable things he did. Leaving Ireland at the start of a world cup finals in 2002, when they had a team with a legitimate chance of getting through to the quarters, because he didn't like a shoddy FAI setup? Could you imagine an English player doing the same and anyone thinking he could hold any ounce of respect after? Let alone offering a job on the national team some 11 years later?

I mean come on seriously. The man has a huge sense of inflated ego, carries on as if he is the authority on most things he says which can often come across as really arrogant, even if he is right.

He deliberately went out to hurt Haaland just because he gave him gyp when Keane injured HIMSELF in trying to trip Haaland in a previous match. Haaland didn't cover himself in glory by running over to him and slagging him off as he laid helpless on the floor, in the first incident at Elland Road but he was not to know the extent of Keane's injury and all he knew at the time was that he was clipped by a naughty off the ball challenge by Keane, justifying Haaland to be angry at the time.

Only because of the seriousness of the injury can you feel sorry for Keane. So for me Haaland has done nothing wrong here, but despite years since the incident and knowing all of the factors Keane still showed the immaturity to absolutely crunch him, running the higher risk of ending Haaland's career when he had the chance and he succeeded. Haaland was not worthy of that at all.

That sort of immaturity too, plagued him throughout his career, how many red cards did he get from acting the fool and not properly being able to deal with the intensity of a match. Granted it was his own personal intensity, when tamed, that made him such a force, but his immaturity shone through on many an occasion and still does today.

I borderline detest the man. And I am generally very placid. The fact he is a part of the Ireland setup now makes me feel a little sick tbh. How spineless are the FAI to let him in?

You only have to look at Vieira's reaction to the question of could you understand what was going through Keane's head when he decided to leave the world cup, he struggled for a while and responded no, after mentioning how proud he was to be a French player.

Yes he was a great leader of men on the pitch, an excellent player, but for not playing for Ireland in the World Cup, I think that is enough to lose nearly all respect for the man, especially over such pitiful reasons.  Yes he can get some of it back, but to rate him as one of the people you most respect in football, I am definitely baffled.

Hopefully that hasn't come across as OTT, I am not angry or anything, lol, I just thought i would state the case, and wonder how you can maintain your view despite him being capable of leaving his country at a World Cup finals.

I couldn't stand the man when he was playing for all the reasons you detail in this post.

But now I love the fella.

Talks more sense than 99.9% of analysts, doesn't suffer fools in the media and their inane questions, shows no fear in saying what he thinks is right.

But most all he's honest with zero bullshit.

How many players when asked about the Haaland incident all these years later would try and mount a defence for themselves or say how much they regret it.

Not Keano. He did what he thought was right and sticks by his judgement.

Love people with courage of their convictions.

Media wise, I am with you, I think he is very astute and he doesn't talk bull shit which is refreshing, and is why he is so popular, and why his view is often seen sometimes as the standard.

Sounds to me you just like and respect him as a pundit, of course too for his past playing ability.

Are you sure you can like a man that sticks to his guns and shows no remorse over a callous act? What is the redeeming feature here? He regrets nothing therefore there is a quaint dignity there? I can see how you like the fact he will not sway to anyone. If he thinks he's right, he is, in his eyes but what about when he is resoundingly wrong and morally vacant? Surely the subject matter of his resoluteness negates his approach to it? How can you respect him for that? His ignorance here is huge.

I have no idea how he can maintain such a high ground with his opinion, in the media, demanding respect, when he has been guilty of ending someone's career unjustly, without remorse and deserting his country when they needed him most? It is that too that grates me when he maintains a smug assurance of his views on ITV, I don't think he deserves the media spotlight, despite the content of what he says quite often being excellent. Even then though he is immature. He backs his views and when discussing can come across as abrupt, rude and self serving. He's almost a caricature.

I would pose the question of if any England player had left the World Cup set up in 2002, under similar circumstances, would he garner as much respect as Keane does now? No, I think would be the answer, he would probably be cast away and disrespected for good, even if he made valiant attempts to clear his rep, he would have done something unforgivable.

There is something that people really like about Keane, it is the outrageous conviction, as you said Keith, that he has of his views, but so many of them have been misguided, and a couple were irretrievably so. So i have no idea how he has still maintained this level of respect when he should have been discarded as a huge liability long ago.

Then there is the question of forgiveness of course. And that is probably what I need to be doing right now Smiley If he helps get Rep. of Ireland into the quarters of a big comp, then he has taken a huge stride to getting me back on board Smiley

Sorry for the rant there Keith, he really annoyed me when I was 13 years old, and didn't realise I still felt so strongly about him still, ha.

What Haaland did was very very nasty.

To taunt someone writhing around in agony with a busted ACR was disgusting.

Obviously he didn't deserve a broken leg for doing it, but I can understand why it annoyed Keane so much.

As for leaving the WC squad, well again it showed he had courage of his convictions.

He thought the prep was amatuer hour and gave them no chance of performing to the levels he expected.

So he walked. Hats off.

Very nasty? wow....


Someone kicks at you and falls to the floor injured I think you are entitled to have a go at them. Exactly same thing happened to a Leeds Rhinos player a few years back, Wigan player had a go at him while on the floor. He didn't know his ACL went bing?

Keane effectively ended Halaands careers, knowing how precious it is to footballers. He admitted his greatest regret was being out for a year with his ACL, so he knows how it would effect him.



I never thought Keane was kicking Haaland in the orginal incident.

Just rewatched and I guess there is a slight element of doubt.

Nigel Martyn knew how serious it was - pushing Haaland away from the stricken player.

As I saidI detested Keane when he was a player - it's only since he's retired that I've grown to respect him.
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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2013, 02:06:25 PM »

didnt keane lie about this last night?

im not sure of the terminology, but he said something like

i meant to foul not injur him.


the whole picking the team together was pretty cringy and the only bits i liked were when Keane was stone faced and acting like a psycho lol
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2013, 03:27:59 PM »

I absolutely love Roy Keane. I'm Irish and biased but I'm similar to Keith in respecting his utter loyalty to his own convictions. Also, he was an unbelieveable footballer.
I actually believe that in the run up to that 2002 World Cup, he was one of the best players in the world. Not just in his position but one of the top 5 players in the world, period.
He played to a very high standard in the Premier League but when it came to Ireland qualifying for the 2002 World Cup, he was playing every game to the standard he displayed in the 1999 Champions League 2nd leg against Juve. He was unbelieveable in that World Cup qualifying group, man of the match every game.
Ireland went unbeaten in qualifying from a group with Holland and Portugal and knocking Holland out.
 
The Haaland incident is horrible and it is a huge black mark on his career, both as a player and as a person. The other black mark is the Saipan incident.

On the first incident, he did not end Haalands career. Haaland played and finished that entire game, he played the next game and an international friendly inbetween. It was a long standing injury that Keane aggravated. But it was horrible, unquestionably.

On the second incident, Keane did not leave Ireland in Saipan. He was sent home after falling out with Mick McCarthy. He initally did want to leave due to the poor facilities but was persuaded to stay. Then he had a massive argument with McCarthy and was sent home.

Both incidents arose from the same cause.
The single biggest insult you can give to Roy Keane is to insinuate that he is faking an injury. I guess he sees that as suggesting that he, as a person, is a faker.
Haaland accused him of faking his injury, hence Keane had to destroy him.
McCarthy accused Keane of faking an injury to avoid a match with Iran and that led to the 10 minute tirade that led to McCarthy sending him home.
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« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2013, 03:33:38 PM »

gary nevilles handshake to viera in 2005 still cracks me up to this day

i quite enjoyed it but that's coming from someone who lived through this era being a die hard united fan. I loved keane, i loved sir alex i hated that they couldnt get along same way as i hated when becks left as well.

I met keane once and he was nice as pie i was only about 11/12 at the time and thought he was gonna be a scary man but not at all. Now i see him being a pundit and in this interview and he looks a scary man!
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« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2013, 03:48:52 PM »

'Who was the best manager?'

'Without a doubt, Brian Clough'

'Not Sir Alex?'

'You asked me the question, I answered you'



Cheesy
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« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2013, 04:05:19 PM »

'Who was the best manager?'

'Without a doubt, Brian Clough'

'Not Sir Alex?'

'You asked me the question, I answered you'



Cheesy

That, and the agonised thought process he very visibly went through when asked to describe SAF in one word, and to pick his strengths and weaknesses.
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« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2013, 05:05:55 PM »

Fergie is definitely not on Roy's xmas card list Cheesy

Thought it was very enjoyable overall, and interesting to listen to them both stroll down memory lane.
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« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2013, 08:04:51 PM »

No one has questioned his playing ability & rightly so. 
Roy Keane was quite clearly ONE of Manchester United's great players of the last 20 years. 
Ask majority of united fans who there No1 is / was & it certainly is not him. 
Thought Ants views were perfectly put. 

His character is what is in question & I will always remember the bad due to the fact I am a Leeds fan.
He was never the same after the injury & IMO I would have Paul Scholes in my team 7 days a week &
Twice on Sundays before Keane.

I've read most of the United players Autobiographies, pretty much everyone of them has said Paul scholes was there No1 united teammate. 

I am presuming they would know best.   

Also Patrick Viera couldn't lace Keano's boots.   

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« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2013, 09:12:11 PM »

@Amos. Man U fans gonna Man U fan. Smiley

Yea I could probs stretch to very good.. Too many cards at detriment to the team, not enough going forward for me and no loyalty to national side stops him ever being great for me.

Scousers gonna scouser...
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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2013, 12:50:18 AM »

lol that joint team was an absolute joke, 

                schmeichal

g neviile      stam    Adams       Irwin           (would probably have A.cole in but he wasnt as developed at the time.)

beckham    scholes   Viera      Ronaldo

               henry   Cantona
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