Missing value?

[Flash92]

Got some stick at the table for not stacking this guy in this pot.


http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/6560066_088E3A6DC0

How can I stack him here? help? thoughts?

[verndog158]

I agree, think that i would check raise the turn, and call of a shove, and if he flats, shove any river for value, other a King or a 4 im guessing. If he has Kings full, or aces full, which realistically are the only 2 hands he could have which beat us, then GG.
Think its a fairly nitty flat on the river if im honest, then again dont play much cash online. Am certainly not flatting if i have sen him 3 bet 87cc from UTG+2!

[Flash92]

I agree, think that i would check raise the turn, and call of a shove, and if he flats, shove any river for value, other a King or a 4 im guessing. If he has Kings full, or aces full, which realistically are the only 2 hands he could have which beat us, then GG.
Think its a fairly nitty flat on the river if im honest, then again dont play much cash online. Am certainly not flatting if i have sen him 3 bet 87cc from UTG+2!

Thank you for your comment, I agree with what you have said for the most part. turn feel like I lose a ton of his bluffs if I c/r. but river should be a c/jam I guess.

[verndog158]

Yeah, either way on the turn is fine for me. What do you do on the river if he checks behind on the turn?
River its going in for sure, never check calling!

[polerization]

anyone else check raise the flop? if were in the situation we are flush over flush we get stacks in here loving life also get action from Kx,sets etc were we have the nuts. We would also have the betting lead on later streets allowing us to control the size of the pot so we could get stacks in?

[Rexas]

anyone else check raise the flop? if were in the situation we are flush over flush we get stacks in here loving life also get action from Kx,sets etc were we have the nuts. We would also have the betting lead on later streets allowing us to control the size of the pot so we could get stacks in?

Have spent the last 15 mins or so trying to explain to verndog why I would probably take this option. Strange that he sees my point now that you've commented, maybe another blonde couple blooming?

[verndog158]

anyone else check raise the flop? if were in the situation we are flush over flush we get stacks in here loving life also get action from Kx,sets etc were we have the nuts. We would also have the betting lead on later streets allowing us to control the size of the pot so we could get stacks in?

Have spent the last 15 mins or so trying to explain to verndog why I would probably take this option. Strange that he sees my point now that you've commented, maybe another blonde couple blooming?

haha turn it up, i said both points are good! bowlerization as a partner? nahhh not rich enough, you on the other hand rexas....

[polerization]

anyone else check raise the flop? if were in the situation we are flush over flush we get stacks in here loving life also get action from Kx,sets etc were we have the nuts. We would also have the betting lead on later streets allowing us to control the size of the pot so we could get stacks in?

Have spent the last 15 mins or so trying to explain to verndog why I would probably take this option. Strange that he sees my point now that you've commented, maybe another blonde couple blooming?

haha turn it up, i said both points are good! bowlerization as a partner? nahhh not rich enough, you on the other hand rexas....

he has a point! you on the other hand rexas..... you now have options.

[dakky]

anyone else check raise the flop? if were in the situation we are flush over flush we get stacks in here loving life also get action from Kx,sets etc were we have the nuts. We would also have the betting lead on later streets allowing us to control the size of the pot so we could get stacks in?

Have spent the last 15 mins or so trying to explain to verndog why I would probably take this option. Strange that he sees my point now that you've commented, maybe another blonde couple blooming?

I make it 3.20 on flop then we have SPR of 2 and easy to get it in by river if he is going with it and probably getting at least another street vs Kx or w/e he isn't snap folding. He is going to have a hard time folding a king or QQ with a club etc on the flop.

 I prefer c/r flop than turn as even though I do c/r turns with big draws not everyone does so it looks stronger than doing it on flop. Only disadvantage is that we take away his ability to 2-barrel his air and weaker hands. Could probably do some kind of analysis to work out which nets more on average....

[SuuPRlim]

I would c/r the flop in this hand - If you decide to c/c flop then c/c c/c is the better option prolly, not really keen on c/r turn you could consider leading the turn on this card as it's not really a card he's gonna light on too much.

Thing is you're range has hardly any off-suit hands in it PF MAYBE Kx but defo not Kx or stuff like that, could have like Jx or Qx MAYBE or perhaps slowplayed AA but when you c/r the flop you look really really strong from that perspective, + in terms of theory IDK what hands you wanna bluff with here? howver IDK how much attention they will be paying that - the reason I don't want to c/r the turn is you're repping a super thin value range and you're kinda close to the bottom of it with you history here I think I'd rather use the NF to bluff catch this deep OOP with ofc the added bonus that you can beat a few value-bets on the river as well.

leading the turn would be an exploitative attack on his pair+ club hands/showdown value hands that he would prolly chk/back OTT, you get his total air not to put any more money in though + you're getting called twice by flushes anyways. If he raises the turn after you lead though Id have no idea what to do Call down prolly he's only really repping KK (doesn't have 33 44 34 K3 K4 in his 3bet range vs UTG we can assume)

[polerization]

Also interesting to see how he thought he was getting 3-streets out of us with 78cc and also that he will 3-bet 78cc, surely this means he will overvalue hands wish we knew this before -_-

[SuuPRlim]

Also interesting to see how he thought he was getting 3-streets out of us with 78cc and also that he will 3-bet 78cc, surely this means he will overvalue hands wish we knew this before -_-

think his postflop play is pretty stnd/good tbh.

PF is a lil lose vs UTG but with theright rationale its fine imo.

think everyone played this hand quite well really

[Rexas]

Also interesting to see how he thought he was getting 3-streets out of us with 78cc and also that he will 3-bet 78cc, surely this means he will overvalue hands wish we knew this before -_-

think his postflop play is pretty stnd/good tbh.

PF is a lil lose vs UTG but with theright rationale its fine imo.

think everyone played this hand quite well really

95% sure chris will now agree with me on this point too

[Flash92]

Also interesting to see how he thought he was getting 3-streets out of us with 78cc and also that he will 3-bet 78cc, surely this means he will overvalue hands wish we knew this before -_-

Further to this comment, I would like to say that I would not have deduced that this villain 'overvalue's hands' - I would have simply noted what he did in the hand.

This makes me think I am not thinking logically enough and not taking away enough information from villains actions.

What other similar things can I work out from villains play is other spots? Like what other kinda information might I be missing/looking past?

[verndog158]

Also interesting to see how he thought he was getting 3-streets out of us with 78cc and also that he will 3-bet 78cc, surely this means he will overvalue hands wish we knew this before -_-

think his postflop play is pretty stnd/good tbh.

PF is a lil lose vs UTG but with theright rationale its fine imo.

think everyone played this hand quite well really

95% sure chris will now agree with me on this point too

haha, i think i might still check call the flop, but totally understand the reasons to raise it, and i appreciate im not that good! easier to say when we are analysing and not when we are playing the hand!
DId you have reads on the guy?surely if we know he is prone to 3 bet 87cc, then is he more likely to 2/3 barrell?