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Author Topic: Ruling please  (Read 3159 times)
WotRTheChances
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2014, 03:15:44 AM »

I don't even get why it would be 900 you forfeit. 

Clearly you should lose 3900, but how did we ever get to 900?

I have JJ in BB

without saying anything I throw a 100 chip in

800+100 = 900.

Obv you've called by putting the 100 in. Not sure how you could think anything different. Even you've said you intended to call and we all know that throwing a chip in here is a way of calling, the rest of the chips just haven't been put in yet. Clearly you lose all 3900.

e.g. if you bet the river in a hand vs someone, they go all-in and you toss in 1 chip more (i.e. call) you can't then not pay the rest when they show you the nuts. You've called.
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LonOhRay
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 03:39:16 AM »

Should lose them all for folding the JJ in first place
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 06:35:47 AM »

I find the sullen string call starting with the toss of a single chip to be quite distressing - seems to becoming de rigeur. Stop posing folks and play cards.

Lame angle shoots like this are worse tho tbf
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WotRTheChances
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 06:48:27 AM »

I find the sullen string call starting with the toss of a single chip to be quite distressing - seems to becoming de rigeur. Stop posing folks and play cards.

Lame angle shoots like this are worse tho tbf

Think its fine on river decisions when you're calling a bet as it speeds up play not counting out the exact call beforehand (obviously if you win then it makes doing that a pointless task).

In this example it seems like it probably slowed the game down, rather than speeding it up though.

Agree with those saying what are you doing folding JJ here?! its like 25bb or something, get the high-fives in.
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dik9
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 07:24:52 AM »

Had a very similar thread on a different forum, can't be arsed to write out another one lol:

The lazy call, really pisses me off. Some "Pro's" in the bigger games have introduced a habit that seems to becoming the norm (and for some reason accepted by dealers?). I first came across this dealing in an EPT in Barcelona and was amazed at the outcome.
 
Preflop Player A (UTG) raised all-in, Player B (UTG +1) says nothing and throws in 1 hundred chip, I was like WTF? player had a go at me and says obviously it is a call, and told me it was in the rules? Confident it wasn't I called the floor, and they backed the player up, saying if a player puts any chips into the pot following an all-in they are accepting the action. This is utter bollox btw unless playing heads up (for the exact reason shown in the OP). Confirmed by the TD after I came off the table and queried.
 
Action follows action, if headphone man sees the player to his right throw a single chip in, he should be able to assume that the bet will be no larger than that chips value.
 
It actually takes less effort to just say "call" rather than flick a chip in and look like a knob.

If action is now on headphone man, he can now see the player to his immediate right has cards and no chips have gone in, he will now ask what the action is or at least check everyone elses action himself.
 
Ironically, if a player tries to match the call without saying anything and puts a number of chips that he thinks matches the call and makes a mistake (i.e. someone bets 95k and the action player puts 45k in and didn't see the 50k chip mixed in a lower value stack) then they have the option of making up to 95k or forfeiting the 45k.
 
In short, the dealer should be telling the chip flicker to say call (without any chips) or push the call over the line, so by the time it gets to headphone man he will know what is going on as would the rest of the table lol.
 
I am however a strong advocate of each player should follow the action, just think it is a real twatty move to put one chip in for a call in a multi way pot Smiley

Edit: the fact you flicked in one chip (as you say indicating a call) trying to get out of it is the angle, disgusting behaviour but in my rule book that would all you would have to put in. However if you flicked one chip in if I was dealing before I proceed to the next player I would be asking you WTF that was lol
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:28:36 AM by dik9 » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 09:39:00 AM »

I don't even get why it would be 900 you forfeit. 

Clearly you should lose 3900, but how did we ever get to 900?

"I throw a 100 chip in , as I am picking up 3x1000 chips the player UTG pushes all in"
 i assumed he meant 1000 chip in with the 3 others to follow unless he was intending to call 3900 by putting 3100 in lol
 
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tikay
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 10:00:48 AM »

I don't even get why it would be 900 you forfeit. 

Clearly you should lose 3900, but how did we ever get to 900?

"I throw a 100 chip in , as I am picking up 3x1000 chips the player UTG pushes all in"
 i assumed he meant 1000 chip in with the 3 others to follow unless he was intending to call 3900 by putting 3100 in lol
 

OP is in the BB, he has already Posted an 800 Blind, so it is only 3,100 to call.
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 10:23:29 AM »

I don't even get why it would be 900 you forfeit. 

Clearly you should lose 3900, but how did we ever get to 900?

"I throw a 100 chip in , as I am picking up 3x1000 chips the player UTG pushes all in"
 i assumed he meant 1000 chip in with the 3 others to follow unless he was intending to call 3900 by putting 3100 in lol
 

OP is in the BB, he has already Posted an 800 Blind, so it is only 3,100 to call.

Post more in PHA please
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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 12:40:53 PM »

Ironically, if a player tries to match the call without saying anything and puts a number of chips that he thinks matches the call and makes a mistake (i.e. someone bets 95k and the action player puts 45k in and didn't see the 50k chip mixed in a lower value stack) then they have the option of making up to 95k or forfeiting the 45k.

I've always found this a bit of a bollocks rule.

Chips should only be in the pot as a result of betting or calling a bet.

In the above example if we are going to give the player the benefit of the doubt of a mistake for whatever reasons his options should be put in the full 95k or withdraw his 45k and fold.

Leaving in the extra chips affects how the rest of the hand might play out. e.g. the betting player might have been bluffing. The calling player would fold for the full 95k but if he's forced to leave the 45k in he thinks f*ck it, may as well flick in the extra 50k. Unfair on the original bettor.
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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 01:33:37 PM »

Ironically, if a player tries to match the call without saying anything and puts a number of chips that he thinks matches the call and makes a mistake (i.e. someone bets 95k and the action player puts 45k in and didn't see the 50k chip mixed in a lower value stack) then they have the option of making up to 95k or forfeiting the 45k.

I've always found this a bit of a bollocks rule.

Chips should only be in the pot as a result of betting or calling a bet.

In the above example if we are going to give the player the benefit of the doubt of a mistake for whatever reasons his options should be put in the full 95k or withdraw his 45k and fold.

Leaving in the extra chips affects how the rest of the hand might play out. e.g. the betting player might have been bluffing. The calling player would fold for the full 95k but if he's forced to leave the 45k in he thinks f*ck it, may as well flick in the extra 50k. Unfair on the original bettor.

Think the rule is fine but the example isn't very good.  It's meant to be a "gross misunderstanding" eg player A mumbles "all in" and puts a handful of low denom chips forward with loads behind, player B puts in an amount to match the low denom chips, as he didn't hear the "all in". 

btw agree that this pish about putting one chip in and saying nothing = call should be stamped out




and national service should be reintroduced.


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tikay
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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 01:34:33 PM »

Ironically, if a player tries to match the call without saying anything and puts a number of chips that he thinks matches the call and makes a mistake (i.e. someone bets 95k and the action player puts 45k in and didn't see the 50k chip mixed in a lower value stack) then they have the option of making up to 95k or forfeiting the 45k.

I've always found this a bit of a bollocks rule.

Chips should only be in the pot as a result of betting or calling a bet.

In the above example if we are going to give the player the benefit of the doubt of a mistake for whatever reasons his options should be put in the full 95k or withdraw his 45k and fold.

Leaving in the extra chips affects how the rest of the hand might play out. e.g. the betting player might have been bluffing. The calling player would fold for the full 95k but if he's forced to leave the 45k in he thinks f*ck it, may as well flick in the extra 50k. Unfair on the original bettor.

Think the rule is fine but the example isn't very good.  It's meant to be a "gross misunderstanding" eg player A mumbles "all in" and puts a handful of low denom chips forward with loads behind, player B puts in an amount to match the low denom chips, as he didn't hear the "all in". 

btw agree that this pish about putting one chip in and saying nothing = call should be stamped out




and national service should be reintroduced.




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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 08:01:13 PM »

I personally think that throwing 1 chip in is a pretty standard call known to everyone.  Has the effect of speeding up the game instead of the table waiting for you to count your chips out, say call or throw in a solitary chip, the action carries o. Round while you put the correct amount in, the dealer should quickly check amounts as the pot is gathered when action is complete.  A standard action recognised by everyone. 
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 08:25:35 PM »

I don't like a ONE CHIP CALL. Firstly it can be a angle shoot ,secondly  it can be player drop a chip while fiddling and thinking at same time , thirdly flicked a chip in and hope for other player to turn over his hand . If it's won u get the chips but if u loose u argue that u haven't call yet. FLOOR PLEASE !! Seen it before and this is why I don't like one chip call except if it's announced CALLED at same time !
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2014, 09:12:44 PM »

If throwing one chip in the middle takes less time than saying the word "call", you're saying it wrong
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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2014, 06:27:30 AM »

If throwing one chip in the middle takes less time than saying the word "call", you're saying it wrong

 
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