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Author Topic: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..  (Read 57515 times)
SuuPRlim
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« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2014, 04:24:54 PM »

posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.

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The Camel
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« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2014, 04:40:48 PM »

posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Meh, I'm tired of posting this, but one last time. I knew my posts would get misconstrued. Wish I hadn't posted in the first place.

I don't think HHs should be posted here, unless Guy and Dave want to.

The thread shouldn't exist, but as it does, they should be allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit.

I am very friendly with Dom, I think he's a top bloke.

I am not on the side of Guy and Dave over Dom.

Just don't think discussing collusion allegations on a public forum is a fair thing to do.
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« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2014, 04:44:35 PM »

You want your mate to get in. Going hard on strangers big blinds while only raising your mates bb when you have a premium hand is almost natural. But that is cheating, right?

Is this cheating ?

For instance, I jam much wider vs randoms than I do versus regs as std; I know a random isn't aware of my ranges as my mate would be so I'm happy punishing them whilst not pushing it as much against him as he might spite call me, so do I now have to play a sub optimal strategy imo and I'm not allowed to have any sort of prerogative to make what I see as the best decisions for me in and around a sat otherwise it might look like collusion.

I don't know if it's cheating or not. Hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.

Game play at the end of a satellite is very complicated. Moves which in a normal tournament would be standard, are certainly not standard in a satty.

That's why I was very surprised that IPoker concluded that Guy and Dave had cheated so quickly.

Maybe the evidence was overwhelming and compelling.
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« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2014, 04:54:13 PM »

posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Meh, I'm tired of posting this, but one last time. I knew my posts would get misconstrued. Wish I hadn't posted in the first place.

I don't think HHs should be posted here, unless Guy and Dave want to.

The thread shouldn't exist, but as it does, they should be allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit.

I am very friendly with Dom, I think he's a top bloke.

I am not on the side of Guy and Dave over Dom.

Just don't think discussing collusion allegations on a public forum is a fair thing to do.

I don't think my post was disagreeing with you or mis-construing your posts Keith...
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The Camel
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« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2014, 04:59:34 PM »

posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Meh, I'm tired of posting this, but one last time. I knew my posts would get misconstrued. Wish I hadn't posted in the first place.

I don't think HHs should be posted here, unless Guy and Dave want to.

The thread shouldn't exist, but as it does, they should be allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit.

I am very friendly with Dom, I think he's a top bloke.

I am not on the side of Guy and Dave over Dom.

Just don't think discussing collusion allegations on a public forum is a fair thing to do.

I don't think my post was disagreeing with you or mis-construing your posts Keith...

Fair enough. Sorry.

I think Rob definitely didn't get the gist of what I was trying to say though.
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« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2014, 05:34:07 PM »

id agree with that.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2014, 05:37:57 PM »

posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



If there were some specific hands that led to the disqualification I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

To be honest I find it quite worrying that I might play a sat, win it and then subsequently find myself being removed from my seat at DTD and barred for life.

If there are some specific hands then I'd like to know if they are hands that I would consider standard. If they are then I'm afraid I'd have to choose not to play the sats any more for fear of being dq'd for doing nothing wrong. We're not just talking about £1100 here we're talking about being accused of cheating and then kicked out of a live comp. It's not a pleasant thought at all.

The thing I find most worrying about this whole sorry situation is the inconsistency. If someone has cheated then yes they should be disqualified but everyone who plays the iPoker/DTD sats will have seen it loads of times with no consequences. Maybe it's because it hasn't been reported before I don't know, I certainly haven't reported it although I've definitely seen it.

Regarding general collusion in satellites I actually thought that was the point. Once you get to the late stages the whole idea is to pick on one or 2 short stacks and try to knock them out. Surely if you've paid your entry fee you should get to decide who you pick on? I know that if I'm lucky enough to get that deep in a sat with a decent stack I'll target one or two players specifically and try to wear them down and force them all in. Decent sat players can see who the targets are and they then join in, on iPoker unfortunately even the crap players join in because some idiots start telling them what to do in the chat box.

One final point. On the final hand when the shorty is all in and everyone flats and then checks it down should everyone be dq'd?

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« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2014, 05:48:08 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^ great post.
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celtic
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« Reply #233 on: February 24, 2014, 06:00:18 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.
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« Reply #234 on: February 24, 2014, 06:07:40 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.

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celtic
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« Reply #235 on: February 24, 2014, 06:10:27 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.



Thinks it's important for people to notice you didn't deny I could have you.

Secondly. I agree that the majority of us probably would try and help our mate. Admitting it though is something else.
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« Reply #236 on: February 24, 2014, 06:15:33 PM »

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.

Had this exact conversation on Saturday with 2 people. I would say all 3 of us would be considered to be reasonably fair minded, on the level kind of people. But we all agreed that, without having pre-planned things, we'd knock a random out ahead of a mate.

I guess one conclusion to that could be that basic human nature is to place loyalty ahead of integrity - not earth shattering I know but kinda supports Camel's point that all sats at some point must become fundamentally unfair/collusive.
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« Reply #237 on: February 24, 2014, 06:18:16 PM »

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.

Had this exact conversation on Saturday with 2 people. I would say all 3 of us would be considered to be reasonably fair minded, on the level kind of people. But we all agreed that, without having pre-planned things, we'd knock a random out ahead of a mate.

I guess one conclusion to that could be that basic human nature is to place loyalty ahead of integrity - not earth shattering I know but kinda supports Camel's point that all sats at some point must become fundamentally unfair/collusive.

Probably shouldn't be restricted to just sats. Final tables if mtt's can be included. I've even seen some strange stuff in cash games.
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« Reply #238 on: February 24, 2014, 06:19:21 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.



Thinks it's important for people to notice you didn't deny I could have you.

Secondly. I agree that the majority of us probably would try and help our mate. Admitting it though is something else.

It's absolutely human nature to help out a mate.

And to try to knock out someone you dislike.

And it's the fault of the satellite tournament structure not the players involved.

With regards to this case, the big question is: do we trust IPoker's collusion team to understand the difference between "normal" collusion that's inherent in satellites and abnormal collusion which would involve players getting dqed and banned from DTD for life?

As I've said at least 3 times in this thread, it seems to me a few hours seems a very short amount of time to the conclusion they cheated.
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« Reply #239 on: February 24, 2014, 06:53:15 PM »

Just re read all my posts in this thread.

I would like Rob to point out which ones he objects to.

Just because I don't go to DTD very often I can't have an opinion on multi table satellites or IPoker?

Really think his criticism of me is pretty unfair.
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"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
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