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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:16:29 AM



Title: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:16:29 AM
Hi guys, I know this will sound like sour grapes but i gen felt I had to play a team tonight in the sat I have just bubbled on dtd's software.

However, i'd have reported this win or lose, it's just one comp and I won't play it now, i'll get over that.

I'll be reporting this to dtd/ipoker as well but I just wanted to make my point here too.

It's very unfair how these sats are run as we approach the bubble.

Why on earth is there no hand 4 hand? And why is the chatbox still allowed?

Basically the chat becomes a little different and the play much more so.

The Chip leader is raising almost every single hand all in apart from on the blinds of 1/2 specific people.

Of course both of those guys like myself are extremely short.

But they were given walks or something approaching chip dumps at the table.

Why is chat still allowed on the bubble of a sat?

An example of why it shouldn't be occurs when the ss (botty1976) on the other table begs the others for a walk and pleads for them to slow down. One guy even says he should shove as he'll pass his blind.

On my table a player called Yarp 23 (the previously named chip leader) claims he's mis click folding v the short stacks (ultraballs19) yet calling my shoves with 86o as a misclick.

I also saw a couple of hands between these two when one would 4bet fold effectively chip dumping.

Something stinks with the whole thing and it's left an absolute rotten taste in my mouth.

Wish I could format hands better so I could put some specific instances down for all to see.

I know this is all a little vague but it's very raw right now.

I'll have to see if someone from ipoker can help me with the hand histories.

Just feel thoroughly cheated.

Ps- I believe Fun4fraser and millidonk on here both won seats and although short stacks i'm not accusing them of the collusion at all.

I believe it was between 2/3 specific players on 1 table and at least 1 on the other table was guilty of at best attempting to collude.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 20, 2014, 02:22:28 AM
Watched a mate play a sat for ukipt a few weeks ago, and the chat and some of the play on the bubble was ridiculous.

Good luck with your complaint.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 20, 2014, 02:26:44 AM
You've called 3 blondes out here and I'd bet a lot at least one had nothing to do with any shadiness at all. However, the lack of hand for hand is both puzzling and a touch ridiculous. I really like the structure/re-entry of these sats but unfortunately there does seem to be some colluding going on. Even if it is just soft collusion where someone who has a seat locked up can pick and choose between the shorties for who they want to get a seat. However, I've seen this sort of thing live too and there isn't that much that can be done about it unless it is systematic. I'd say hand for hand should start from 12 if there are 10 seats.

edit: You actually 100% call out someone who I'm 99.9999% sure is innocent. Doesn't feel like the best way to go about things.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:31:55 AM
You've called 3 blondes out here and I'd bet a lot at least one had nothing to do with any shadiness at all. However, the lack of hand for hand is both puzzling and a touch ridiculous. I really like the structure/re-entry of these sats but unfortunately there does seem to be some colluding going on. Even if it is just soft collusion where someone who has a seat locked up can pick and choose between the shorties for who they want to get a seat. However, I've seen this sort of thing live too and there isn't that much that can be done about it unless it is systematic. I'd say hand for hand should start from 12 if there are 10 seats.

edit: You actually 100% call out someone who I'm 99.9999% sure is innocent. Doesn't feel like the best way to go about things.

I don't know how to sort the hand history at mo, i barely play ipoker.

There is clear collusion and I suspect some of them are members here.

Tell me who is innocent that i've called out??


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: outragous76 on February 20, 2014, 02:33:32 AM
Dom

I haven't logged into blonde for 6 months and your post is embarrassing!

I am yarp23, I am delighted you were so specific about who I was "cheating" with

Dave Milligan is my best friend in poker, and you are clear I didn't collude with him

I am friendly with Fraser Bellamy I believe I 3 bet him about 7/8 times with 14 people left

I also 3 bet rsnxxxxxxxxxx 7/8 times too 15 people out (no idea who that is)

I am aware of ultra balls have met him once irl.

So seriously who am I going to help if I really want to cheat? ........

Infact if you recall correctly I called off Fraser on the pure bubble long before I called you off! Your reporting of the HHS seem a little lacking in fullness don't they?

I am more than happy that Dtd review my HHS. I am happy for any independent person to check it too.

I am also happy that every other of my recent satty HHS are also reviewed to show exactly the same play style when I'm cl on the bubble

I am insulted by your accusation and I await your apology! It's quite clear it is sour grapes. I think you will find 86ss plays fine HU for 3bbs when you gave 40% of chips in play!

I would expect better of someone like you. Infact I'm very disappointed! Gl with your collusion report thou


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:38:19 AM
Dom

I haven't logged into blonde for 6 months and your post is embarrassing!

I am yarp23, I am delighted you were so specific about who I was "cheating" with

Dave Milligan is my best friend in poker, and you are clear I didn't collude with him

I am friendly with Fraser Bellamy I believe I 3 bet him about 7/8 times with 14 people left

I also 3 bet rsnxxxxxxxxxx 7/8 times too 15 people out (no idea who that is)

I am aware of ultra balls have met him once irl.

So seriously who am I going to help if I really want to cheat? ........

Infact if you recall correctly I called off Fraser on the pure bubble long before I called you off! Your reporting of the HHS seem a little lacking in fullness don't they?

I am more than happy that Dtd review my HHS. I am happy for any independent person to check it too.

I am also happy that every other of my recent satty HHS are also reviewed to show exactly the same play style when I'm cl on the bubble

I am insulted by your accusation and I await your apology! It's quite clear it is sour grapes. I think you will find 86ss plays fine HU for 3bbs when you gave 40% of chips in play!

I would expect better of someone like you. Infact I'm very disappointed! Gl with your collusion report thou


Hiya Guy.

Ok well i'm happy for people to look at the hand histories and decide for themselves.

If you played against me the same way you played against everyone else it would have been fine. You were clearly attempting in my opinion to manufacture a 'certain' result. Of crse you have to call me when I jam etc, but the way you played v 2 or so people was clearly collusion in my humble opinion.

I didn't know it was you who held the account of yarp23, not that it should matter anyway.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: outragous76 on February 20, 2014, 02:44:07 AM
You didn't complain when you doubled with JJ.

Infact I would ask you to recall just how many time you 3b ai vs me when there were 14/16 players left? Maybe 7 times? Some terrible over jams too!

And I raise folded to you all 7 times? No?

Are people not just as likely to accuse me of colluding with you too?

Please review the HHS from 500/1000 blinds and I'm sure you will realise its sour grapes.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Rexas on February 20, 2014, 02:46:08 AM
Honestly guys I don't think this should go much further if there is an investigation going on by Ipoker. I would, however, be pretty happy in vouching for Guy as someone who wouldn't collude.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:47:28 AM
You didn't complain when you doubled with JJ.

Infact I would ask you to recall just how many time you 3b ai vs me when there were 14/16 players left? Maybe 7 times? Some terrible over jams too!

And I raise folded to you all 7 times? No?

Are people not just as likely to accuse me of colluding with you too?

Please review the HHS from 500/1000 blinds and I'm sure you will realise its sour grapes.



Let's just see what Ipoker say mate.

I 100% believe I am right on this. If someone tells me how to get hands from ipoker i'll gladly post some up to illustrate my clear confusion over some of the 'play'.

Something just didn't seem right from quite a few people down and especially so from 11.

Happy to be proved wrong on this.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:49:24 AM
When I doubled with JJ?

Haha seriously??!!

I'd have mentioned this even if i'd have got my seat which I almost did as the other table's short stack was forced all in.

I felt it was almost me against the whole table.

I detest collusion and would have posted this regardless of being the bubble.
 


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: verndog158 on February 20, 2014, 02:51:21 AM
Honestly guys I don't think this should go much further if there is an investigation going on by Ipoker. I would, however, be pretty happy in vouching for Guy as someone who wouldn't collude.

Guy is a top guy, and dont believe hed cheat. All be there on the bubble of a sat, strange play is the only stlye that happens.
Seems like a slight case of bubble boy sour grapes here.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: outragous76 on February 20, 2014, 02:53:29 AM
So I call off vs rns when he has KK
The kid i busted with my qq
I called off frasers jam bvb when he had 77

Yeah sounds like I was picking on you



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: pleno1 on February 20, 2014, 02:54:22 AM
Be sorry about this but congrats fraser and Nathan!!!!!!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 20, 2014, 02:55:30 AM
[00:52:55] Nathan Davies: oi oii
[00:56:50] Nathan Davies: god im sweating so hard here
[00:56:54] Nathan Davies: 10/12
[00:56:57] Nathan Davies: 10 seats
[00:57:03] Nathan Davies: (worry)
[01:12:47] Adam Picken: gl nsth
[01:12:51] Adam Picken: nath#
[01:13:07] Nathan Davies: 11/11
[01:13:32] Nathan Davies: big stack all in every hand
[01:14:45] Nathan Davies: have 4bb
[01:14:53] Nathan Davies: 10th has 4.5bb
[01:17:21] Adam Picken: just need a walk or something
[01:17:39] Nathan Davies: all in EVERY hand
[01:17:48] Nathan Davies: hes just doubled the other shortie
[01:17:55] Nathan Davies: im goosed
[01:20:31] Adam Picken: can spin yourself
[01:20:56] Nathan Davies: best hand ive had is 53o
[01:21:07] Nathan Davies: shortie just called with T9o and got there :(
[01:21:38] Nathan Davies: jammed 97o
[01:22:06] Nathan Davies: omg it got through#
[01:24:30] Nathan Davies: the fucking xolusion on the other table is unreal
[01:24:41] Nathan Davies: *colusion
[01:27:00] Nathan Davies: no hand for hand either
[01:27:31] Adam Picken: no h4h is a joke
[01:30:41] Nathan Davies: never got equity to jam

Nathan = Ultraballs. Still think him and guy were colluding? He didn't even know who it was.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Pinchop73 on February 20, 2014, 02:57:33 AM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DK3UQwP7DKQ/Tw4pqZBilQI/AAAAAAAAAm0/tCgFmiUgDRs/s1600/neil-degrasse-tyson-badass-gif.gif)


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 02:57:44 AM
So I call off vs rns when he has KK
The kid i busted with my qq
I called off frasers jam bvb when he had 77

Yeah sounds like I was picking on you



There was so much weird stuff going on i'd wager serious money that pm's were being exchanged somehow.

There was soft play against certain people and standard bubble play against me.

There was even mention in the chat of pm's being sent on here-on the direct bubble.

Let's see what Ipoker say.

Happy to be proved wrong.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 03:03:16 AM
All I know is that Nathan was getting a lot of free chips.

Basically ipoker will decide.

Again am happy to be proved wrong over this.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Pinchop73 on February 20, 2014, 03:04:04 AM
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (IPoker)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 20, 01:21:20 ET 2014
Table Dusk UKPC Mega Sat LP  821410032 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( 48196 ) - VPIP: 26, PFR: 20, 3B: 8, AF: 2.5, Hands: 214
Seat 2: Player2 ( 217412 ) - VPIP: 58, PFR: 51, 3B: 27, AF: 0.0, Hands: 114
Seat 4: Player4 ( 39242 ) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 10, 3B: 9, AF: 0.0, Hands: 130
Seat 5: Player5 ( 50009 ) - VPIP: 10, PFR: 10, 3B: 6, AF: 4.0, Hands: 148
Seat 7: Hero ( 21478 ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 18, 3B: 7, AF: 1.7, Hands: 3318
Seat 9: Player9 ( 38862 ) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 2.0, Hands: 229
Player2 posts ante of [600].
Player4 posts ante of [600].
Player5 posts ante of [600].
Hero posts ante of [600].
Player9 posts ante of [600].
Player1 posts ante of [600].
Player2 posts small blind [3000].
Player4 posts big blind [6000].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [  9d 7s ]
Player5 folds
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6cho0XTf31r3gb3zo1_400.gif)
Hero raises [20878]
Player9 folds
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Player4 folds

(http://i.imgur.com/2aDJ0.gif)

Hero wins 33478 from main pot

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/2214763_o.gif)


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 03:13:13 AM
All I know is that it wasn't like 1/2 weird moments.

More like 10+

Millibink even said in the chat that he'd pm'd nathan on the direct bubble-but on the other table that we were all on-I had both open.

I felt that Guy/yarp23 was attempting to make sure it was me that bubbled and not the other 4.

The hand histories won't lie and Ipoker will decide.

Good night.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Pinchop73 on February 20, 2014, 03:16:11 AM
Being in position to the guy who is open jamming every unopened hand is never going to be nice. ul bro


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 03:20:54 AM
Being in position to the guy who is open jamming every unopened hand is never going to be nice. ul bro

I actually wasn't angry with you specifically mate.

Obviously it was a nice result for you to get the walks etc.

Just seemed very strange in the context+did you notice the weird peel's pre and post flop play when so shallow?

It all stank of chip dumping and collusion to me.

I have never been so certain of something.

I actually doubt ipoker would accuse you of being anything bar a grateful beneficiary though.

Gl in the comp.

Dom


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 03:49:07 AM
Obviously reading back through this a great deal of it will seem like sour grapes.

Am fine if people think that as long as I know the truth, which is that win or lose i'd have reported it+write this here.

There were too many instances of the big stack jamming every hand blind, and then calling preflop and donating a little post to another ss.

Or when he'd open fold to a bb with 3x. Not once did this occur versus me and I felt up against a team.

I guess if it's covert collusion then it's hard to prove and perhaps it's somewhat normal on the bubble.

This I was sure was about as overt as you could get, about as subtle as a brick.

Am currently looking for hands to post to explain my points better, I just can't seem to copy them from ipoker.

I'll stop posting now as I am obv ranting and might sound like a bitter grape lover.

I'll await ipoker's response and then post again.




Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: JGill_DTD on February 20, 2014, 03:55:40 AM
Obviously reading back through this a great deal of it will seem like sour grapes.

Am fine if people think that as long as I know the truth, which is that win or lose i'd have reported it+write this here.

There were too many instances of the big stack jamming every hand blind, and then calling preflop and donating a little post to another ss.

Or when he'd open fold to a bb with 3x. Not once did this occur versus me and I felt up against a team.

I guess if it's covert collusion then it's hard to prove and perhaps it's somewhat normal on the bubble.

This I was sure was about as overt as you could get, about as subtle as a brick.

Am currently looking for hands to post to explain my points better, I just can't seem to copy them from ipoker.

I'll stop posting now as I am obv ranting and might sound like a bitter grape lover.

I'll await ipoker's response and then post again.




How long does it take for ipoker to look into these things? like 2 weeks+?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Nico29 on February 20, 2014, 07:09:55 AM
Spent all night going through the 46 bubble hands.

Imo 7 of them are very interesting and i've asked ipoker to look into them fully.

Apologies to Nathan, I don't think you were involved now after due consideration.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: outragous76 on February 20, 2014, 08:22:58 AM
Spent all night going through the 46 bubble hands.

Imo 7 of them are very interesting and i've asked ipoker to look into them fully.

Apologies to Nathan, I don't think you were involved now after due consideration.

Lol! Please go back & read your op where you were certain it was me & ultra!

I honestly have no concerns what so ever. I would recommend you start your HH review from 500/1000 blinds. I would also suggest you do that whilst considering if I was colluding with you.  I must have r/f vs you at least 7 times in a very short period if time

Im sure I poker will confirm the same.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: George2Loose on February 20, 2014, 08:27:44 AM
Why do u read blonde without signing in?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: geordieneil on February 20, 2014, 08:28:06 AM
going to the bank to change lots of 50p's


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: david3103 on February 20, 2014, 08:34:56 AM
We debated this at length last year and amongst the useful conclusions were...


For the avoidance of any doubt, Players SUSPECTED (by other players) should NOT be named on the Forum, that is the very strong view of the mods.

Hence your post was deleted, Sadly amongst the tsunami of others from you last night, the content of it was missed at the time


and these

Nick is looking at this, he is away at the moment, he is trying to get ipoker to switch the chat off x places from the bubble. This is a no brainer and goes without saying that we need to be right on top of this. What do other online poker sites do about this - every online site must have bubbles in sats and tournies, what happens in the $200,000 GTE on Sunday nights in ipoker?  Rob


Hi Guys

From tonight we are banning the chat nearing the bubble this should eliminate players trying to discuss the bubble.

I have also sent off the previous nights chats to be reviewed by the fraud and security team and if we find any players to have colluded we will take appropriate action.

If you have any concerns with particular players please email them to support@dusktilldawnpoker.com and they will be able to send off immediately.

Cheers Nicola


Presumably there's a software issue that means chat can't be switched off, but these problems will continue to crop up from time to time until chat and bubble play is at least observed/moderated.

What happens in the live Sats with 10 seats when they get to bubble time? Does the TD stand over them making sure it's all above board? I know that Simon warns players on the FT bubble in Grands Prix that soft playing to make sure a Golden Chip holder survives is punishable by disqualification...







Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: millidonk on February 20, 2014, 09:03:15 AM
lolz, just woke up to this. wowzers


Ps- I believe Fun4fraser and millidonk on here both won seats and although short stacks i'm not accusing them of the collusion at all.

I believe it was between 2/3 specific players on 1 table and at least 1 on the other table was guilty of at best attempting to collude.




Apologies to Nathan, I don't think you were involved now after due consideration.

Confused. Who is being accused here then?

I just want to point out Guy is probs my best friend in poker, he was actually in my house playing this, I was in the dining room on my sexy set up and he was in the living room on his laptop. I can categorically assure you at no point did we see each other's hands or talk about what we had. The sicko actually made a joke of wanting to bust me when he jammed or raised 99% of my bbs. If anything I would say it looked dodgey on your part as he raise/folded to about 7 or 8 of your jams.

Obv I am not overly happy about this thread but if it gets iPoker to block chat and add in h2h then it will be worth it. The chat on the other table was a complete joke "raise and I will fold to you mate", "giving a walk etc."

More than happy for hands to be sent to ipokez. Would wager Yarp took more bbs off me than any other player at the table and were 'supposed' to be friends. :(


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 20, 2014, 09:30:17 AM
Locked at request of Dtd. Will post when at the club later and I can c and p a note to me received overnight.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 20, 2014, 10:36:26 AM
DTD's view on these threads are as follows

"Can we lock/delete it please? We professionally and personally think its people outing each other and not good for anyone.

We have received the official complaint through support and will send to iPoker as standard and their team will come back with results of the investigation. We will then report back to the player/s concerned"


 


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 20, 2014, 10:39:44 AM
I spoke to DTD this morning and it is their firm and publically expressed view that

a) they would like to see H4H on ipoker satellite bubbles

b) they would like to see chatboxes suspended around satellite bubbles

Requests have gone to IPoker and attempts have been made to implement both by the network, but the fixes are not 100% reliable yet so both remain in development

DTD would like both in place asap


Nothing wrong with someone starting a new thread around these issues, but as we've said in the past these threads must avoid naming names, specific collusion instances etc. These are best dealt with privately.

thanks




Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 20, 2014, 03:57:13 PM
The thread has been unlocked because DTD wish to post on the matter

Please wait for that everyone tyvm


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: DTD-ACES on February 20, 2014, 04:12:41 PM
Hi All

Following a complaint received today the I Poker collusion team have written to us confirming that 2 players have been blocked on the I Poker network for collusive play.

They have also requested that these 2 players should not be awarded the prizes relevant to their finishing places.

This information was received as todays live event was approaching the first break, once I was made aware of it both players were disqualified, their chips removed from play and they are barred indefinitely from DTD.

Cheers ACES





Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: cambridgealex on February 20, 2014, 04:17:29 PM
Wp DTD


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: scotty77 on February 20, 2014, 04:21:35 PM
Fantastic work.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: MC on February 20, 2014, 04:29:06 PM
That's a pretty fast and bold decision, I hope they have some right to appeal, I think satellite hh's are pretty difficult to dissect.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 20, 2014, 04:31:48 PM
That's a pretty fast and bold decision, I hope they have some right to appeal, I think satellite hh's are pretty difficult to dissect.
+1. Would really like to know who investigated and what pedigree they have.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Dubai on February 20, 2014, 04:36:04 PM
Very brave call from Ipoker. It's nearly impossible to prove collusion in satellites as arguments can be made for every action in every hand that wouldn't apply in other forms of the game


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: MLHMLH on February 20, 2014, 04:53:23 PM
Sends a very clear message.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: George2Loose on February 20, 2014, 04:56:58 PM
Would be good to see the hand histories


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 20, 2014, 04:59:18 PM
Very sad news.

Sats are terrible for so many reasons, and this highlights one of the main problems.

If you want to play a big tournie, just play a small one as a satellite!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: BorntoBubble on February 20, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
Do DTD get any more details on the investigation? Agree with above very hard to prove unless there is something very specific seen!

What happens to their prize money?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: millidonk on February 20, 2014, 05:12:05 PM
Would be good to see the hand histories

Have requested that they let me know the hand/s. Will post them up once I hear back so we can get some educated feedback..

I can only guess that they have gotten a complete fish to go through the HHs or the fact we were on the same IP was enough to seal our fate.

Only hand I can think off the top of my head is one where I didn't go all in from the BB with AA. Guy was massive CL and limped the button. The SB had less than 1 small blind left and I didn't intend on putting another chip in the pot..


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: millidonk on February 20, 2014, 05:12:35 PM
That's a pretty fast and bold decision, I hope they have some right to appeal, I think satellite hh's are pretty difficult to dissect.

I think they are easier to dissect if people are typing in the chat box "hey guys, let's collude!", as was suggested at the beginning of this thread.

That was the other table who I assume are all fine.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Skippy on February 20, 2014, 05:19:10 PM
That's a pretty fast and bold decision, I hope they have some right to appeal, I think satellite hh's are pretty difficult to dissect.

I think they are easier to dissect if people are typing in the chat box "hey guys, let's collude!", as was suggested at the beginning of this thread.

That was the other table who I assume are all fine.

Yeah, sorry, I've deleted my post, as I was obviously barking up the wrong tree.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 20, 2014, 05:24:51 PM
Very sad news.

Sats are terrible for so many reasons, and this highlights one of the main problems.

If you want to play a big tournie, just play a small one as a satellite!

Having said that, respect to Dom for sticking to his guns when he was roundly criticised and derided last night.

And respect to DTD for acting swiftly and decisively.

Trust there is an appeal process and it is conducted by an expert in satellites.

As we know, folding AA and other counter intuitive moves are often the correct in sats.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: PathFinder on February 20, 2014, 05:29:50 PM
Guilty or not, playing a satalite with the same ip address is a little naive , will always bring up suspicions regardless


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 20, 2014, 05:38:38 PM
I take it from the list of exits it's Guy and Dave that have been removed & banned?....

with apologies for the long list

Exits so far today

391    David Lloyd
392    Simon Hemsworth
393    Karl Mahrenholz
394    Richard Scott Berryman
395    Caicai Huang
396    Barrie Chase
397    Ian Bradley
398    Nigel Pemberton
399    Mian Wei
400    Basharat Mahmood
401    Laith Sheena
402    Ian Senior
403    Sam Trickett
404    John Tobin
405    Peter Charalambous
406    Anonymous
407    Matt Adams
408    Timothy Flanders
409    Nadim Sarwar
410    Robert Boon
411    Colin Napier
412    David Milligan
413    Guy Johnson

414    Florian Duta
415    Dave Buckland
416    Alli Mallu
417    Rizgar Qadir


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 20, 2014, 05:45:39 PM
Simon has already stated that Aaron. Read the thread!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Junior Senior on February 20, 2014, 05:53:14 PM
Not that i suspect any foul play whatsoever from these guys, i would imagine that same IP usage in same tournament would be enough to ring the alarm. As Keef says there are many reasons to do totally non standard things in sats because of the unique dynamics sats create so hope that is taken into account.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: redsimon on February 20, 2014, 06:19:53 PM
Hope theres a right of appeal, Dave and Guy are both very honest people and would be a shame if the full hhs and chat logs are not reviewed to see what went on on both tables. I've folded AA pre on bubble or near bubble in many DtD sats online when I had a seat locked up and could fold my way to "the money".


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 20, 2014, 06:22:40 PM

Apologies to Nathan, I don't think you were involved now after due consideration.
[/quote]

I just want to point out Guy is probs my best friend in poker, he was actually in my house playing this, I was in the dining room on my sexy set up and he was in the living room on his laptop.
[/quote]

you didn't just say that ^^ did you??


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: millidonk on February 20, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
meh, had nothing to hide. Learned my lesson now though.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 20, 2014, 06:27:12 PM

[/quote]

Only hand I can think off the top of my head is one where I didn't go all in from the BB with AA. Guy was massive CL and limped the button. The SB had less than 1 small blind left and I didn't intend on putting another chip in the pot..
[/quote]

LOL!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: ripple11 on February 20, 2014, 06:27:29 PM
Hope theres a right of appeal, Dave and Guy are both very honest people and would be a shame if the full hhs and chat logs are not reviewed to see what went on on both tables. I've folded AA pre on bubble or near bubble in many DtD sats online when I had a seat locked up and could fold my way to "the money".

Only fair to have a right of appeal.
Once the UKPC is over, I hope Simon/DTD will look at it in detail, and listen to Dave and Guy's side of the story.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Rexas on February 20, 2014, 06:39:14 PM


Only hand I can think off the top of my head is one where I didn't go all in from the BB with AA. Guy was massive CL and limped the button. The SB had less than 1 small blind left and I didn't intend on putting another chip in the pot..
[/quote]

LOL!
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not sure why this is "LOL". In a satellite you have effectively won the tournament once you have a seat locked, if mili felt this was the case then he has no reason to put another chip into the pot.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 20, 2014, 06:40:24 PM
Very sad news.

Sats are terrible for so many reasons, and this highlights one of the main problems.

If you want to play a big tournie, just play a small one as a satellite!

Having said that, respect to Dom for sticking to his guns when he was roundly criticised and derided last night.

And respect to DTD for acting swiftly and decisively.

Trust there is an appeal process and it is conducted by an expert in satellites.

As we know, folding AA and other counter intuitive moves are often the correct in sats.

+1

Fair play to Dom for reporting this. Would definitely be good to know that Simon Trumper at DTD got to see a collusion report at DTD. I've been a player on ipoker for years and while I think at times they get a bad rap, they definitely deserve it sometimes. It would definitely be good to know that the person who viewed the hand histories fully understands the difference of a regular tournament and a satellite. On pokerstars I'd be totally confident the appropriate actions were taken but all it takes is someone with only a basic understanding of the game to be looking over this for it to be wrong and a decision taken which can severely affect the reputations of players. Everyone knows that reputation in poker is everything. Good that they have responded quickly however - if only they weren't taking years and years to simply put measures in place like creating hand for hand on the bubble etc.

Definitely echo Dubai's points too - very hard to prove in a sat.

One thing that I wanted to question, was when Dom said he specifically thought he was being targetted to not win a seat. Surely that is perfectly fine? If I was a monster CL where there were 3 short stacks and I was a lock to win a seat, I'd probably be keenest to knock out who I thought was the best player. Maybe I'd target the guy I didn't like. Maybe one was my mate and I'd just stay out of their way. Wouldn't say there's anything wrong with any of the first two and the last one is fine as long as that's not pre-agreed upon to stay out of each others way etc.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 20, 2014, 06:44:44 PM
Why do u read blonde without signing in?

haha, this!



Only hand I can think off the top of my head is one where I didn't go all in from the BB with AA. Guy was massive CL and limped the button. The SB had less than 1 small blind left and I didn't intend on putting another chip in the pot..

LOL!
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not sure why this is "LOL". In a satellite you have effectively won the tournament once you have a seat locked, if mili felt this was the case then he has no reason to put another chip into the pot.
[/quote]

Agree completely. This is exactly the type of hand I had in mind when I expressed a concern at whoever looked at the tournament history from ipoker.

I have many friends who play occasionally, have an understanding of the game and if shown that hand would probably all say 'CHEATING!' whereas I could never penalise that in a sat.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 20, 2014, 06:46:34 PM
Also, congrats Guy on the 2nd lifetime ban.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: YEAHMAN123 on February 20, 2014, 07:03:30 PM
think everytime i bubble a sat i'll start a thread 'exposing people'lol
theres dodgy play in every sat, why are people so suprised? i see it most times i play but not just online but live too. im not sayin its right to accept open collusion but theres times when maybe ive made a fold when its a call, do we just all lie to play it safe, chip dumping is a little different in as much as its far to obvious. but ive seen these threads before and nothing done but soon as its a bigger sat suddenly its worth dealing with

i think it would be good to see the cards and action that was taken between the players? if this is open?
it is disappointing that it involves two blondes sigh


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: outragous76 on February 20, 2014, 07:36:50 PM
Feeling pretty dizzy at the moment. I haven’t read this thread in any detail since it has been reopened, I just wanted to make a point.

I stated last night/early this morning that I didn’t cheat with anyone in the Satellite and I absolutely maintain that position.

To be clear on the position I poker have temporarily suspended account privileges whilst I am under investigation and Dave is in the same position. DTD verbally advised us that collusion HAS been identified and hence their position today, which I can respect at this time.

However, I am now going to spend as much time as it will take to clear my name (and Daves) because I/we didn’t cheat.
I don’t want to mention any specifics on here so as not to potentially prejudice my position. Needless to say once its resolved I will comment further.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: atdc21 on February 20, 2014, 07:42:17 PM
Good luck with it all, you dont know me but i watched final 2 tables whilst playing cash, thought you played big stack really well.
BUT the playing in same house is gonna be a massive bogey for your case.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: DTD-ACES on February 20, 2014, 07:53:17 PM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 20, 2014, 08:45:06 PM


Only hand I can think off the top of my head is one where I didn't go all in from the BB with AA. Guy was massive CL and limped the button. The SB had less than 1 small blind left and I didn't intend on putting another chip in the pot..

LOL!
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not sure why this is "LOL". In a satellite you have effectively won the tournament once you have a seat locked, if mili felt this was the case then he has no reason to put another chip into the pot.
[/quote]

in normal satellite situation i would agree, but to say that after you are putting up some kind of defence and saying "we were not colluding but playing on same ip address in same house and i fold AA", to be accussed of cheating and then say "we're best friends but playing in same house in different rooms and i folded AA only hand i can think of "

Also, I met guy at grand prix sat at blackjack table and he seemed like a very intelligent man, to read his mates comments he must be squirming and blows any chance of it being seriously looked at on appeal! Im afraid it seems Dom was right from start here!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: BorntoBubble on February 20, 2014, 08:46:21 PM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Is this industry standard in Sat's? (I dont think ive ever come across this before in a sat although have been refunded in an MTT before)

IF the two in question are guilty of collusion (Ive expressed my views on this already) Surely its not just two players in the Sat that would be affected? 2 players get £1100 and the rest get nada? rather than the other 30 players or so splitting the £2.2k or it being a more "tiered" system. Understand this would be a more time consuming method but seems fairer. Just my 2cent's


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 20, 2014, 08:50:45 PM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Is this industry standard in Sat's? (I dont think ive ever come across this before in a sat although have been refunded in an MTT before)

IF the two in question are guilty of collusion (Ive expressed my views on this already) Surely its not just two players in the Sat that would be affected? 2 players get £1100 and the rest get nada? rather than the other 30 players or so splitting the £2.2k or it being a more "tiered" system. Understand this would be a more time consuming method but seems fairer. Just my 2cent's
Full tilt do it all the time, they are top of the table with cutting out colluding and I often get refunds or seats based on players being disqualified and banned! (without complaining)


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: BorntoBubble on February 20, 2014, 08:58:02 PM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Is this industry standard in Sat's? (I dont think ive ever come across this before in a sat although have been refunded in an MTT before)

IF the two in question are guilty of collusion (Ive expressed my views on this already) Surely its not just two players in the Sat that would be affected? 2 players get £1100 and the rest get nada? rather than the other 30 players or so splitting the £2.2k or it being a more "tiered" system. Understand this would be a more time consuming method but seems fairer. Just my 2cent's
Full tilt do it all the time, they are top of the table with cutting out colluding and I often get refunds or seats based on players being disqualified and banned! (without complaining)

Yes and i know stars do it as well but was not going to come in and start comparing brands.

My question was where is the line between awarding seats to 11/12 and refunding the other players involved?

If its Sats - Pay next person out
Standard Comps - Split equally

Or is it a case by case basis?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: lucky_scrote on February 20, 2014, 11:22:16 PM
Colluding has been going on in satellites for a long time. I find in these online dtd sats it happens a lot because you're often playing with your mates and people can get away with it. I'd like to say that I know Guy and that I'll do my best to give an unbiased opinion.

Firstly, the two people that have been banned were on the same IP. I think this is something that should be completely ignored as it means nothing. It is no different if I am on skype with a friend or whatever.

The fact that people get away with colluding in these games all the time is not a reason to collude yourself and some feel like they need to help their friends out/dump chips in order to balance the so called cheating against yourself. I don't condone this but accept that a lot of people do it. If you happen to be the people that are made example of then that's tough luck. For example, guy and millidonk.

I don't think Guy is scummy at all and people shouldn't really associate what people are calling "colluding" as scummy. Defining and identifying colluding is difficult but I'll be honest I expect that if I were to review the hand histories I'd see some soft play somewhere along the lines. This of course poses a problem. If I were on the pure bubble of the one drop (farfetchaments) with a big stack and some random business punter and Phil Ivey are the short stacks, I'm going to obv give walks to the businessman and try to bust Ivey. It makes complete tactical sense. Given this potential strategy you could use this as an argument of "hard playing" someone or a couple of people at the table. This is of course becoming a ridiculous argument now but this is why defining colluding is a tricky one and needs an experts analysis as well as strict rulings every satellite and not just this one.

I believe the decision DTD made was likely to be one that suited their interests and a lot of other peoples. They need to protect their reputation and I think they have acted accordingly and fair. The only thing I am unsure about is the quick response from an ipoker fraud specialist on a Thursday morning. I don't think something can be analysed and reported on so quickly, but I may be wrong.

The only thing that is a shame that two certain people have been outed for this when there is a small chance they are innocent and they've been made an example of but I guess life isn't fair sometimes. I hope that people will begin to play these more fairly now and that the ipoker support team take colluding more seriously in the future.

I would like to see the hh's myself if they are available, as someone who plays quite a lot of online satellites and has a good understanding of ICM I believe I'd be someone who could make a good judgement of the potential of collusion in game. I find it incredibly hard to believe that some ipoker employee looked at the hands on a single thursday morning and is capable of making a good decision every time.

All in all, apart from 2 people being banned from the tournament and feeling very sour, this is only going to be a good thing for the future satellites that are played.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 20, 2014, 11:43:51 PM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Hi Simon.

I think you are a great card room manager and I regard you as a friend.

But I think you are very wrong on this.

Two popular and respected members of this forum have banned from ipoker and your cardroom.

I think it's only fair - if they want to argue the case - that the hands in question are open to scrutiny of this forum.

If they accept the findings, fair enough. Lock up the thread and let's get on with playing cards.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: MC on February 20, 2014, 11:45:34 PM
Hi Simon.

I think you are a great card room manager and I regard you as a friend.

But I think you are very wrong on this.

Two popular and respected members of this forum have banned from ipoker and your cardroom.

I think it's only fair - if they want to argue the case - that the hands in question are open to scrutiny of this forum.

If they accept the findings, fair enough. Lock up the thread and let's get on with playing cards.

Well said


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 20, 2014, 11:52:25 PM
I'd be happy to bet there are many more accomplished and talented satellite (and poker) players using this forum than there is in the Ipoker collusion department.

I know whose conclusion I would trust more.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Dry em on February 21, 2014, 12:35:44 AM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Hi Simon.

I think you are a great card room manager and I regard you as a friend.

But I think you are very wrong on this.

Two popular and respected members of this forum have banned from ipoker and your cardroom.

I think it's only fair - if they want to argue the case - that the hands in question are open to scrutiny of this forum.

If they accept the findings, fair enough. Lock up the thread and let's get on with playing cards.

I know nothing about what's happened here but I know a little about the process in general.

Hand histories are only 1 element to an investigation like this and so posting them here would not prove anything. There are a range of elements considered and I think it's clear why the complete process and findings wouldn't be posted on a public forum


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: sonour on February 21, 2014, 12:36:16 AM
It isn't a manual process. They have software to detect collusion.

I wonder if they have different software for play on the bubble in a satellite.i somehow doubt it.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 21, 2014, 12:36:53 AM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Hi Simon.

I think you are a great card room manager and I regard you as a friend.

But I think you are very wrong on this.

Two popular and respected members of this forum have banned from ipoker and your cardroom.

I think it's only fair - if they want to argue the case - that the hands in question are open to scrutiny of this forum.

If they accept the findings, fair enough. Lock up the thread and let's get on with playing cards.

I woulda thought posting the hands on here, is the worst thing that can happen.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 12:42:44 AM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Hi Simon.

I think you are a great card room manager and I regard you as a friend.

But I think you are very wrong on this.

Two popular and respected members of this forum have banned from ipoker and your cardroom.

I think it's only fair - if they want to argue the case - that the hands in question are open to scrutiny of this forum.

If they accept the findings, fair enough. Lock up the thread and let's get on with playing cards.

I know nothing about what's happened here but I know a little about the process in general.

Hand histories are only 1 element to an investigation like this and so posting them here would not prove anything. There are a range of elements considered and I think it's clear why the complete process and findings wouldn't be posted on a public forum

I understand this. And I'm not suggesting the full details of the inquiry are put on this thread.

Simon and Rob can obviously ban who they want from their card room.

But as this is out in the open on a forum where Mili and Guy are both members, they are entitled to use the evidence they have to try to defend themselves if they wish.

A few hours seems very quick to come to the conclusion they were colluding.

I am friendly with both sides of this case and wish it had never happened.

But now it's out in the open, the guys accused are entitled to be able to defend themselves.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 21, 2014, 12:46:09 AM
The HH's have naff all to do with this forum - whether or not x,y & z are respected members or not. Like Celtic said, worst thing ever, I'm sure the people involved will get to see proof at some point. It really has nothing to do with Blonde, even if the initial problem has been posted here.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: verndog158 on February 21, 2014, 12:47:47 AM
Think maybe a mixture between the 2 is best.
THink it is a bad idea to post the hand histories on here, with the names of the players involved, however, certainly post them somewhere to players where all the usernames are not shown, so any bias is avoided


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Dry em on February 21, 2014, 12:52:58 AM
The matter has been handled and we will not be posting hand histories and participating in public post mortems.

The £1000 seats have been awarded to the 2 players that finished 11th and 12th in satellite.

Cheers ACES



Hi Simon.

I think you are a great card room manager and I regard you as a friend.

But I think you are very wrong on this.

Two popular and respected members of this forum have banned from ipoker and your cardroom.

I think it's only fair - if they want to argue the case - that the hands in question are open to scrutiny of this forum.

If they accept the findings, fair enough. Lock up the thread and let's get on with playing cards.

I know nothing about what's happened here but I know a little about the process in general.

Hand histories are only 1 element to an investigation like this and so posting them here would not prove anything. There are a range of elements considered and I think it's clear why the complete process and findings wouldn't be posted on a public forum

I understand this. And I'm not suggesting the full details of the inquiry are put on this thread.

Simon and Rob can obviously ban who they want from their card room.

But as this is out in the open on a forum where Mili and Guy are both members, they are entitled to use the evidence they have to try to defend themselves if they wish.

A few hours seems very quick to come to the conclusion they were colluding.

I am friendly with both sides of this case and wish it had never happened.

But now it's out in the open, the guys accused are entitled to be able to defend themselves.

Fair enough and given the fact the players will have access to the hand histories they can post them if they wish but I think Simon's stance is correct.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 12:54:42 AM
The HH's have naff all to do with this forum - whether or not x,y & z are respected members or not. Like Celtic said, worst thing ever, I'm sure the people involved will get to see proof at some point. It really has nothing to do with Blonde, even if the initial problem has been posted here.

So if someone accuses you of being a cheat on a public forum, you'll just swallow it.

ok.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: craigbetts on February 21, 2014, 12:55:28 AM
Is Dom happy with the actions of today?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 21, 2014, 12:59:54 AM
The HH's have naff all to do with this forum - whether or not x,y & z are respected members or not. Like Celtic said, worst thing ever, I'm sure the people involved will get to see proof at some point. It really has nothing to do with Blonde, even if the initial problem has been posted here.

So if someone accuses you of being a cheat on a public forum, you'll just swallow it.

ok.

At the moment, as far as ipoker and dtd are concerned, the accusation has been proven to be true. There's really not a lot of point guy and milli arguing it on here. It's not us they have to defend themselves to. If I was them I'd do it all very quietly, with ipoker.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:00:17 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 21, 2014, 01:01:02 AM
Is Dom happy with the actions of today?

I think he's far from happy at what's happened, and probably wishes he didn't have to do it.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 21, 2014, 01:02:28 AM
I wasn't saying that Keith, was merely saying they shouldn't be posted on here and I'm sure guy & Dave will see the HH's & be discussed between them!

But how long is long enough to go through HH's? This took hours are people suggesting it should take days to take action that had already been took? It does seem that the fact of x, y & z hands and shared IP's, would be hard to really argue it & I'd be sure this decision wasnt taken lightly

Hopefully gets resolved & everyone learns their lesson


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 21, 2014, 01:04:12 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish. I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:15:11 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 21, 2014, 01:17:12 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:23:42 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: George2Loose on February 21, 2014, 01:25:46 AM
Did Dom start this knowing the players in question were blonde members or as a general moan?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 21, 2014, 01:27:14 AM


I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.



It was posted at 2.10am

No mods online til the earliest 8am the next morning, then got to decide whether to remove, which might not have been an easy decision. No idea

by the time we locked it the damage (reputationally) was done.

I too would prefer the thread hadn't been created, makes a tricky situation trickier. These things happen in the heats of moments though


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 21, 2014, 01:29:38 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 21, 2014, 01:30:57 AM
Did Dom start this knowing the players in question were blonde members or as a general moan?

A general complaint thinking players "involved" were most likely members on here. Soon confirmed on posts through the night

btw, I am also of the view that posting HH on here going forward makes no difference to the matter at hand, which is to provide proof to IPoker to reverse their decision, and hence to do the same with DTD, if the players can.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:31:03 AM


I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.



It was posted at 2.10am

No mods online til the earliest 8am the next morning, then got to decide whether to remove, which might not have been an easy decision. No idea

by the time we locked it the damage (reputationally) was done.

I too would prefer the thread hadn't been created, makes a tricky situation trickier. These things happen in the heats of moments though

Yeah, I totally understand why Dom started it.

In his situation I might well have done exactly the same thing.

It's done now however.

And I think Milli and Guy should be given the right to reply if they so wish.

That's all I'm suggesting.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:34:09 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?

As far as DTD and Ipoker are concerned they are guilty.

But as far as Blondepoker is concerned the case is not proven.

If their reputation on here is important to them, they should have the chance to defend themselves against the allegation.

If they are guilty or it doesn't matter to them, then who cares?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 21, 2014, 01:36:57 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?

As far as DTD and Ipoker are concerned they are guilty.

But as far as Blondepoker is concerned the case is not proven.

If their reputation on here is important to them, they should have the chance to defend themselves against the allegation.

If they are guilty or it doesn't matter to them, then who cares?

what blondepoker and its mass of posters thinks does not matter Keith

If the bans are reversed, then members will know. If not, individual members will decide for themselves whether that is a problem or not in their relationships with the banned players. For many people Guy and David's reputation will not have altered one jot today.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:40:40 AM
FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. :(

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?

As far as DTD and Ipoker are concerned they are guilty.

But as far as Blondepoker is concerned the case is not proven.

If their reputation on here is important to them, they should have the chance to defend themselves against the allegation.

If they are guilty or it doesn't matter to them, then who cares?

what blondepoker and its mass of posters thinks does not matter Keith

If the bans are reversed, then members will know. If not, individual members will decide for themselves whether that is a problem or not in their relationships with the banned players. For many people Guy and David's reputation will not have altered one jot today.



Well I disagree with that.

Your reputation is more important than whether you are banned from a cardroom or a online poker site.

In my opinion obviously.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:44:39 AM
One of my best friends is banned from virtually every casino and card room in the country.

Yet I trust him more than many of the people who have a spot less record of never being banned.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 21, 2014, 01:46:46 AM
Perhaps I phrased it wrong

Whatever they post on here will make no difference to the ban being reversed or not, and any reputational loss being restored

Far better to do it privately, and concentrate on the important stuff than being distracted on this thread

In my opinion


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:55:06 AM
Perhaps I phrased it wrong

Whatever they post on here will make no difference to the ban being reversed or not, and any reputational loss being restored

Far better to do it privately, and concentrate on the important stuff than being distracted on this thread

In my opinion

It depends what's important to them.

And if they are innocent.

As they played on the same IP address I would think that's enough to get them banned from IPoker. And nothing will change that.

That doesn't make them cheats though.

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.

If they did cheat, then their reputation deserves to be in tatters.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 01:57:33 AM
Christ I'm a crap poster nowadays.

Taken about 10 posts to make the point I should have been able to make succinctly in 1.

And people will still probably think I'm trying to defend Guy and David.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 21, 2014, 01:59:37 AM

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.


This (publishing HH's that look understandable from a satellite strategy perspective) doesn't definitely prove the charge at hand one way or another. Other factors are at play are they not? Collusion Software detects long term playing histories and patterns therein for example?

Not expressing a view on this particular case, btw, as I don't know all the facts.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: WotRTheChances on February 21, 2014, 02:00:49 AM
Think it's really really tough to determine collusion in a sat. If i were looking for collusion i'd need to see someone do something v.different from their general play thus far e.g. raise/folding to a certain player who is v.short in order to dump chips where they had previously only been only jamming/folding etc. Giving walks/ not calling all-ins are impossible to judge.

A lot of spots where one person may think a player can't fold, another may fold because they don't have to play a hand. Even if there was a spot where someone makes a clear error... it's not proof, people just don't play perfectly. I can't imagine the collusion detection would be done using a computer as the normal 'rules' and ranges of normal tournament poker just don't apply. Like I said, i'd need to see someone do something really out of the ordinary and/or have some sort of proof of intent to collude (whether it be in chat or via PMs).

Think we have to assume for now that due diligence has been given to the matter and that it is a correct decision before rubbishing the conclusions that have been drawn, although i'd be very interested to know how they came to the decision. I for one am a pretty experienced satellite player, but i'd find it v.difficult to prove conclusively that x, y or z had colluded in any given satellite given all HHs from one.

(edit: for balance i'd also find it very difficult to prove that collusion hadn't occurred)

Hope it's not true, but i'm sure it goes on. I feel like if people were smart about it then it would be basically undetectable... so you have to have some element of faith in human decency when playing these things. I don't see much of a way to prevent it completely. Obviously banning chat and going H4H are two things that make it noticeably more difficult.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: gouty on February 21, 2014, 02:02:09 AM
Christ I'm a crap poster nowadays.

Taken about 10 posts to make the point I should have been able to make succinctly in 1.

And people will still probably think I'm trying to defend Guy and David.

You are still the Master.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 02:02:53 AM

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.


This (publishing HH's that look understandable from a satellite strategy perspective) doesn't definitely prove the charge at hand one way or another. Other factors are at play are they not? Collusion Software detects long term playing histories and patterns therein for example?

Not expressing a view on this particular case, btw, as I don't know all the facts.

Would I trust IPoker's collusion software to differentiate between a satellite and a regular tournament?

Absolutely not.

They don't even turn chat off as the bubble looms ffs.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 21, 2014, 02:03:38 AM
Nobody is ever going to admit to cheating, its human nature to just deny it whether u did or didn't


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 02:04:31 AM
Christ I'm a crap poster nowadays.

Taken about 10 posts to make the point I should have been able to make succinctly in 1.

And people will still probably think I'm trying to defend Guy and David.

You are still the Master.

Cheque is in the post.

As a bookmaker I bet you've heard that sentence a few times :)


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 02:06:52 AM
Nobody is ever going to admit to cheating, its human nature to just deny it whether u did or didn't

If this thread was about me and I was guilty, you would never see me on Blondepoker again.

Possibly after one apology / explanation.

If I was innocent, you would never stop me answering every point.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Ironside on February 21, 2014, 02:10:04 AM
Nobody is ever going to admit to cheating, its human nature to just deny it whether u did or didn't

If this thread was about me and I was guilty, you would never see me on Blondepoker again.

Possibly after one apology / explanation.

If I was innocent, you would never stop me answering every point.

aint it about time your brought back the poker bastard blog too keep all this stuff in check?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 21, 2014, 02:12:59 AM
Nobody is ever going to admit to cheating, its human nature to just deny it whether u did or didn't

If this thread was about me and I was guilty, you would never see me on Blondepoker again.

Possibly after one apology / explanation.

If I was innocent, you would never stop me answering every point.

Everyone is different & if someone has home out of their way to cheat or collude, then why would they ever admit to it? If someone has tried to cheat or whatever, they are hardly going to admit it, so think nothing is going to change here.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Domaison on February 21, 2014, 02:18:53 AM

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.


This (publishing HH's that look understandable from a satellite strategy perspective) doesn't definitely prove the charge at hand one way or another. Other factors are at play are they not? Collusion Software detects long term playing histories and patterns therein for example?

Not expressing a view on this particular case, btw, as I don't know all the facts.

Would I trust IPoker's collusion software to differentiate between a satellite and a regular tournament?

Absolutely not.

They don't even turn chat off as the bubble looms ffs.


I presume you do not play ipoker/DTD sats then if you do not trust the collusion software.

We should all be happy & accept they have been caught & just hope they can prove there innocence to Ipoker/DTD.  

Everyone knows that this goes on, but this forum is not the place to prove anything.

Both players have pretty solids reputations from what I have read & they don't need defending or accusing here IMHO.  


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 02:24:47 AM

I don't play on IPoker full stop.

Two guys 100% colluded against me in a SNG about 5 years ago. It was so blatant it was nearly funny. Yet they said "not enough evidence".

Haven't played another hand on the site since (except for a couple of bowl tournies on Neil's site)

That was my main point really.

This thread shouldn't exist.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Fshhhee on February 21, 2014, 02:43:11 AM
Just to add my penny worth I do not believe that for one moment that Dave and Guy are guilty of serious collusion but a little naive to be playing on the same IP address. However, I don't understand why I poker allows this to happen, you can't do this on other platforms.

And on the subject of folding AA, I wish I had against Guy in the last Live DTD Caribbean Package 15 months ago. 5 packages 7 left , I'm comfortable with 20 bigs. Guy shoves 15 bigs from SB, I'm BB AA!! Vs 78 flop 964 5 A :( Crippled and go out 7th.
So I agree with previous comments folding AA on the bubble is a good thing and doesn't suggest collusion.

GL Dave and Guy in clearing your name and I hope DTD and I poker give you a fair hearing.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: mumblesrock on February 21, 2014, 02:59:31 AM
If these lads were going to colude then they would not be doing it in the chat box!!! they would be on skype or something!! so its a definate case of sour grapes and venting anger at the bubble - in my opionion,


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: atdc21 on February 21, 2014, 03:04:36 AM
I would suggest the main reason a decision was made so quickly is not to do with the hands/how they were played, but more to do with the fact they were on the same IP address, of course could be wrong.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: atdc21 on February 21, 2014, 03:06:08 AM
mumblesbrook, why would they need skype, they are in the same house


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 21, 2014, 03:16:22 AM
A question to anyone reading:

If you was in the same house as someone playing a poker tournament and on the same poker table, would you honestly not collude? Or in the exact same situation tournament wise?



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: atdc21 on February 21, 2014, 03:22:07 AM
Aaron, of course its possible no collusion has taken place, its just the scenario will nearly always lead people to think it could of, imo playing on same IP addy is always gonna be on  a hiding to nothing.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Woodsey on February 21, 2014, 03:26:40 AM
A question to anyone reading:

If you was in the same house as someone playing a poker tournament and on the same poker table, would you honestly not collude? Or in the exact same situation tournament wise?

Do you think anyone will say yes to that question?

I think temptation would get the better of many, but nobody will admit it.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: aaron1867 on February 21, 2014, 03:41:49 AM
Aaron, of course its possible no collusion has taken place, its just the scenario will nearly always lead people to think it could of, imo playing on same IP addy is always gonna be on  a hiding to nothing.

The fact that someone has already said that he thought 2 players was colluding before knowing they was in the same house would probably add to the scenario really. I very much doubt Dom knew anything about it, so seems there might have been something going on. But then again Dom did say a few pages back that he thought one player was just trying harder to knock him out than others, wouldn't say that is colluding. But as it stands it does seem very suspicious the whole situation & so far Dom has been proved right, even though many doubters who dag their heels in!

Woodsey - definitely doubt people would admit it, but I would say most would help themselves in that situation.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 21, 2014, 05:24:28 AM
I can imagine that friends playing a satellite in same house would naturally want to help each other? Human nature again? Let's say they are in different rooms, I have no doubt they would still be talking/shouting & staying away from each other.

Dom has made a complaint not knowing these 2 knew each other never mind were in same house, it seems he has provided specific details on specific hands to I poker who have investigated & taken action & advised DTD regarding the prizes etc.

To take a decision this quickly I can only assume the findings are quite obvious.

If it were me I'd defend myself to death over this and want to rack up as much expert support as I could (like here) I can't imagine posting hand histories will help because if someone as savvy as Dom has picked out several hands where he feels collusion was In play with just his poker knowledge & instinct to fall back on & an expert bans both payers within a few hours based on this evidence I imagine those several hands will not favour their defence well.

This isn't a court of law, posting evidence isn't going to compromise them in anyway (as was mentioned in guys response) only gain support but I truly believe based on what we know it's a waste of time & will only confirm Ipoker/Dtd findings



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: stato_1 on February 21, 2014, 05:40:19 AM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 05:47:01 AM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: stato_1 on February 21, 2014, 06:04:43 AM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

Every site does afaik? For MTTs?

Im pretty sure on stars there's a number x when if the field <x you cant play

In regular MTTs collusion is probably far more easy to detect though so I guess it matters less.

Guess I'm in the minority but if I'm on a final table with someone sat across the room from me and theyre a mate I probably play harder against them than anyone else lol


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 21, 2014, 07:35:57 AM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

ftp, starts etc also allow this keef


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: david3103 on February 21, 2014, 08:32:52 AM
There is a group of very regular satellite players/winners on DTD and I would be absolutely stunned if that group hadn't on one or more occasions been guilty of soft-playing vs each other.
Then there's always the potential for people who travel together to events to work together in qualifying.
Do the chat logs get reviewed at any stage? Are HHs only looked at if someone objects? Is there no regular process of checking the play to ensure a level playing field for a Billy No Mates vs a crew from wherever?

I've bubbled or close a lot of satellites on DTD.
In ALL of those I am 100% confident that people were colluding on one level or another. Asking openly in chat for walks, whole tables agreeing in chat to slow the game down so that 'their' shortstack would hit the blinds after someone on another table.
The issue was so bad last year that this forum debated it at length here (names were removed from that thread) http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=60769.0


That was nearly a year ago and Lord knows how many seats have been won since yet it seems that Dave and Guy, two people whose word I would be very happy to trust, are the only people who iPoker think have done anything wrong?



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: StuartHopkin on February 21, 2014, 08:33:11 AM
Sends a very clear message.

What message exactly?

I suppose it does.

Don't play sats on DTD if you enjoy being able to play at the club?
It is such a small player pool on there that everyone knows someone sat at their table.

The whole 'they are playing in the same house' thing is complete rubbish.
It is obviously quite possible to have 10 people connected over the internet in many ways all sharing their hands and plans for each hand.
Two people being sat next to each other is really no different to if they were in different countries.

I am pretty sure if you have chips you do actually have the right to pick someone out at the table who you don't like the look of and decide you want to bust them.
Surely IPoker need solid proof that they were communicating their cards to call them colluders here?
I am pretty sure that if I was playing live and sat next to Jakally we would both want to knock Kinboshi out, we wouldn't even need to communicate it, its just natural.
Is this collusion?
I doubt very much whether IPoker have a clue at what they are looking for to prove a case like this.

Therefore I don't feel safe playing DTD sats anymore as I really enjoy having the option of, albeit very occasionally, walking through the doors of DTD.
All it takes is one person to spit their dummy out on here, call me out as a cheat and get me banned.


 


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: YEAHMAN123 on February 21, 2014, 08:57:11 AM
Think this is why we'd need to see hand history and stuff from the players before making judgement of any sort. Just like a recent tread with friends coming on saying ''they wouldn't do it' 'sound people' etc etc then for further stuff to come out and people made to look like fools.
Like Aaron has stated, your in tw same house on a ft and your not guna help each other out? I say your a liar if u say no or been banned before and super paranoid. I think in my opinion they did collude but it happens on all sats. Going to be very hard to stamp it out.
I met guy at Grand Prix last week and wasnt the first time but he was a complete idiot towards me at the table, I accepted his apologise hours later at the bar whilst drinking yet continued to slag my play off ,still consider he rude and very disrespectful towards me, suppose it is me but some heavy karma come down on u UL ;)

Saying there blondes and shouldn't be banned is stupid also sayin it's harsh is stupid, think about what they have done and then try defending them. They must take this as a lesson
Dave stated this earlier in the thread and kinda feel for him but rules our rules


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Pawprint on February 21, 2014, 09:25:19 AM
David and Stuart have pretty much summed up my thoughts on all this.

I play a lot of sats online with DTD, and with such a small player pool, it's always obvious that you are sat with players that know each other well.

That does tend to raise my paranoia levels and I regularly see situations that make me go WTF ?

All anyone wants is a level playing field, which is what I thought DTD were aiming for with the work around the Club Cash Tables.

Not a great thread to read, but hopefully something positive comes out of it going forward.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 21, 2014, 10:35:41 AM
I think it would be prudent of blonde poker to remind its members that there has been no substantiated proof provided to the open forum of guilt or otherwise and therefore members providing specific comment in respect to people cheating would seem ill advised.

Thank you


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: sonour on February 21, 2014, 11:25:50 AM
Perhaps I phrased it wrong

Whatever they post on here will make no difference to the ban being reversed or not, and any reputational loss being restored

Far better to do it privately, and concentrate on the important stuff than being distracted on this thread

In my opinion

It depends what's important to them.

And if they are innocent.

As they played on the same IP address I would think that's enough to get them banned from IPoker. And nothing will change that.

That doesn't make them cheats though.

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.

If they did cheat, then their reputation deserves to be in tatters.

I emailed Pokerstars to ask if Pete and I could play from the same house on the same IP address. I was told yes as long we played from separate rooms and should we find ourselves on the same table that we were to play the same way against each other as we would against a random.

Is IPoker different ?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Karabiner on February 21, 2014, 11:52:08 AM
I obviously have nothing to go on here but gut instinct but it appears to me that i-poker have acted a little hastily here putting 2+2 together and getting 5.

Allegations of cheating+two guys who won seats playing from the same i/p address=guilty.

It all seems a little too simplistic to this observer.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: verndog158 on February 21, 2014, 11:55:11 AM
Agree with posters above, same IP address is totally irrelevant when it comes to collusion. Most of us chat on fb/ have skype groups open while we play and can chat just as easily as if they were in the same room.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: david3103 on February 21, 2014, 12:14:53 PM
Agree with posters above, same IP address is totally irrelevant when it comes to collusion. Most of us chat on fb/ have skype groups open while we play and can chat just as easily as if they were in the same room.

Really? What do you chat about?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 21, 2014, 12:19:39 PM
I'm assuming that Ipoker will provide the two players what evidence it has against them. I would also suspect that they have already had this. They won't disqualify and ban them & not explain why.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: verndog158 on February 21, 2014, 12:21:25 PM
Agree with posters above, same IP address is totally irrelevant when it comes to collusion. Most of us chat on fb/ have skype groups open while we play and can chat just as easily as if they were in the same room.

Really? What do you chat about?


Dont think i conveyed my point as well as i could have. Obviously it is rare to play on the same table as mates, so problems dont often arise.
My point in the above post was, like stato and co made, i have played in the same sats and tournys as mates/ dad before, sometimes in the same house and havent colluded.
Also, with skype, facebook and mobiles now, no matter where you are if you want to collude then there is no real way of preventing it, so IP address here, for me shouldnt be a dominating factor, as it is just as easy to cheat, or collude if you wanted to, wherever you are playing


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 12:21:57 PM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

ftp, starts etc also allow this keef

Well.

I didn't know that.

Very surprised.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: millidonk on February 21, 2014, 12:28:16 PM
I'm assuming that Ipoker will provide the two players what evidence it has against them. I would also suspect that they have already had this. They won't disqualify and ban them & not explain why.



Wrong on all accounts sir.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: leethefish on February 21, 2014, 12:31:54 PM
I'm assuming that Ipoker will provide the two players what evidence it has against them. I would also suspect that they have already had this. They won't disqualify and ban them & not explain why.



Casinos can ..... Are they any different ?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: tiger on February 21, 2014, 12:38:49 PM
From personal experience,

I was banned from a site for suspected collusion (not ipoker) 2 years ago with no evidence provided by this site.

I asked them for this and they were not forthcoming until I really kicked up a fuss. I was sent hand histories and asked to explain my play. The suspected collusion was with a Russian guy who apparently I had played with 12 times over the course of a month? I had never spoke to this guy and was totally oblivious to who he was. Eventually I was able to prove my innocence and was reinstated back to the site, not that I ever played another hand on there.

Hope you do get that explanation/ the chance to put across your thoughts. You certainly should be able to.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 21, 2014, 12:41:37 PM
I'm assuming that Ipoker will provide the two players what evidence it has against them. I would also suspect that they have already had this. They won't disqualify and ban them & not explain why.



Wrong on all accounts sir.
Then thats very bad indeed! Hopefully you'll be pushing for this asap as that isnt fair. You cant prove your innocence if you dont know what you're being accused of. Good luck with ipoker!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Mango99 on February 21, 2014, 12:42:30 PM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

When setting up tourneys on iPoker there is a box to tick on the request form 'allow players from same IP'. When setting up tourneys for APAT I have ticked this, as know we have a lot of members who are couples and both want to play in our leagues etc.

It's up to each skin if they allow this or not on a tourney by tourney basis. Perhaps for sats it would be better if it wasn't allowed. However, I don't think it really makes a difference. It's just as easy to share info when you're not sat together (skype, phone, etc.).


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Ironside on February 21, 2014, 01:00:23 PM
Does DtD still supply and allow use of laptops/tablets in the club obviously they are going to want the sharing of ip if this is the case so people in the club can boost numbers online for sats


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: kinboshi on February 21, 2014, 01:28:51 PM
Does DtD still supply and allow use of laptops/tablets in the club obviously they are going to want the sharing of ip if this is the case so people in the club can boost numbers online for sats


They don't provide computers, but you can use their wifi with your own laptop.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Matt.NFFC. on February 21, 2014, 01:32:29 PM
This whole thing is a mess that's for sure.

I always thought you couldn't play on the same IP as someone else, proves how much I know.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 21, 2014, 01:45:21 PM
This whole thing is a mess that's for sure.

I always thought you couldn't play on the same IP as someone else, proves how much I know.

In cash games that is certainly true. In SNGs I think that is the case also.

For MTTs it is permitted.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Ironside on February 21, 2014, 01:46:51 PM
No point in barring same ip use  as people will just use a proxy anyway


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: BangBang on February 21, 2014, 02:02:37 PM
This is why the poker industry in general needs a central governing body or ombudsman to police and regulate it.  Not just to protect the players but to protect the card rooms, casinos and online sites from denigration and ill practices

I have no view in what’s alleged here but hope both Dave and Guy are treated in a fair and just manner.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 21, 2014, 02:03:15 PM
No point in barring same ip use  as people will just use a proxy anyway
and mobile broadband, cheap and available everywhere now with great reception in most places


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: ripple11 on February 21, 2014, 02:05:32 PM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

When setting up tourneys on iPoker there is a box to tick on the request form 'allow players from same IP'. When setting up tourneys for APAT I have ticked this, as know we have a lot of members who are couples and both want to play in our leagues etc.

It's up to each skin if they allow this or not on a tourney by tourney basis. Perhaps for sats it would be better if it wasn't allowed. However, I don't think it really makes a difference. It's just as easy to share info when you're not sat together (skype, phone, etc.).

So logically it cant be same the ip address in this case......


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Mango99 on February 21, 2014, 02:11:47 PM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

When setting up tourneys on iPoker there is a box to tick on the request form 'allow players from same IP'. When setting up tourneys for APAT I have ticked this, as know we have a lot of members who are couples and both want to play in our leagues etc.

It's up to each skin if they allow this or not on a tourney by tourney basis. Perhaps for sats it would be better if it wasn't allowed. However, I don't think it really makes a difference. It's just as easy to share info when you're not sat together (skype, phone, etc.).

So logically it cant be same the ip address in this case......

I don't follow your reasoning?...


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 02:46:14 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Jamier-Host on February 21, 2014, 02:54:46 PM
I notice the iPoker security guys aren't rated too highly. Probably lots of personnel changes from when I worked with them, but in those days it was mainly degenerate poker geeks in the roles so they were pretty sound on the background in these sort of cases.

You're right though - i'd imagine the same IP thing got weighted highly and so anything a bit suspect would probably tip the balance.

I thought the PS response was quite amusing. As long as you pinky promise not to sit next to each other you'll be ok :)

I emailed Pokerstars to ask if Pete and I could play from the same house on the same IP address. I was told yes as long we played from separate rooms and should we find ourselves on the same table that we were to play the same way against each other as we would against a random.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: smurf on February 21, 2014, 03:43:48 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.




Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: George2Loose on February 21, 2014, 03:47:09 PM
Barring same ip won't solve the problem. If people want to collude they will find a way


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 03:49:43 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.




I'm suggesting playing an online tournament INSTEAD of playing an online sat and using and winnings to buy in to the bigger tournament.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Graham C on February 21, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.

Play a regular online tournament and use the money for the live event?

I don't see how they can be barred for using the same IP address if you can quite easily sit down in DTD and play on the same IP address.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Doobs on February 21, 2014, 03:55:16 PM
I obviously have nothing to go on here but gut instinct but it appears to me that i-poker have acted a little hastily here putting 2+2 together and getting 5.

Allegations of cheating+two guys who won seats playing from the same i/p address=guilty.

It all seems a little too simplistic to this observer.

All seems a little simplistic from here too.  It is just so obviously wrong.  There are a bunch of people here who have said they have done the same without issues.  So it is unlikely to be solely down to the same IP.

Dom earlier stated that people were playing differently vs him than others, Milli put up a hand that just looked incredibly suspicious.  If there are a bunch of shoves vs Dom and a bunch off limps vs Milli then whilst you can't prove anything, you can have grounds to believe cheating is more likely than not.

In a court of law, people are only found guilty if it is beyond reasonable doubt.  To get yourself barred from a casino, there is ok such test.  They could just bar you if they didn't like you.  I am sure Ipoker doesn't go as far as the reasonable doubt, and aren't likely to choose to lose customers without a reasonable suspicion something was going on.  So what has happened is likely somewhere in between.  If they have a series of hands that play out noticeably different to those where Dom/others were in the hand then they could bar them without having to be 100% sure they are guilty.  

Given the potential for a shit storm was always there in this case, I very much doubt that they just ban people because someone had complained as others have stated.  I have probably complained about collusion a handful of times, and on only 2 did the people disappear.  One of the ones where they survived they were not only soft playing, they were discussing it in chat.  I have absolutely no idea what more evidence they needed, but maybe they got away with it as I got a seat too.

I can fully see how the hand histories/reasons for banning weren't revealed, and it has never happened in the cases I saw.  You start publishing how they find people were cheating, then some people are bound to use that info to cheat better.

I haven't had any access to hand histories etc, so can't have any idea what the nature of any alleged collusion was, or whether they are guilty, just can't believe people really think it is just down to the IP sharing.

Hope the final result is the correct one obviously.  


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: smurf on February 21, 2014, 04:02:02 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.




I'm suggesting playing an online tournament INSTEAD of playing an online sat and using and winnings to buy in to the bigger tournament.

that could work


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: david3103 on February 21, 2014, 04:04:07 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.




I'm suggesting playing an online tournament INSTEAD of playing an online sat and using and winnings to buy in to the bigger tournament.

that could work

Hard to find an online tournament where coming 20th pays £1100.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 04:09:01 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.




I'm suggesting playing an online tournament INSTEAD of playing an online sat and using and winnings to buy in to the bigger tournament.

that could work

Hard to find an online tournament where coming 20th pays £1100.

Play FTW young David!

That is what, after all, what poker tournaments are supposed to be about.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: ripple11 on February 21, 2014, 04:09:23 PM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

When setting up tourneys on iPoker there is a box to tick on the request form 'allow players from same IP'. When setting up tourneys for APAT I have ticked this, as know we have a lot of members who are couples and both want to play in our leagues etc.

It's up to each skin if they allow this or not on a tourney by tourney basis. Perhaps for sats it would be better if it wasn't allowed. However, I don't think it really makes a difference. It's just as easy to share info when you're not sat together (skype, phone, etc.).

So logically it cant be same the ip address in this case......

I don't follow your reasoning?...

Sorry, badly worded.........I meant : "your post shows that using the same ip address cant be the reason why they were disqualified"


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: dreenie on February 21, 2014, 04:14:21 PM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

fair enough if you live local...i play the sats as i live 50 miles from DTD and they are half or a third of the time to complete than a live game would...i suspect a lot of other players live a fair distance away aswell.

The chance of satting in cheaply and then even playing a day one online is perfect for those living some distance away.

I do prefer live play but some times it's just not practical.




I'm suggesting playing an online tournament INSTEAD of playing an online sat and using and winnings to buy in to the bigger tournament.

that could work

Hard to find an online tournament where coming 20th pays £1100.

Just spinnnnnnnnnnnnnn it up, or double down!!!!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: BangBang on February 21, 2014, 04:53:30 PM
I obviously have nothing to go on here but gut instinct but it appears to me that i-poker have acted a little hastily here putting 2+2 together and getting 5.

Allegations of cheating+two guys who won seats playing from the same i/p address=guilty.

It all seems a little too simplistic to this observer.

All seems a little simplistic from here too.  It is just so obviously wrong.  There are a bunch of people here who have said they have done the same without issues.  So it is unlikely to be solely down to the same IP.

Dom earlier stated that people were playing differently vs him than others, Milli put up a hand that just looked incredibly suspicious.  If there are a bunch of shoves vs Dom and a bunch off limps vs Milli then whilst you can't prove anything, you can have grounds to believe cheating is more likely than not.

In a court of law, people are only found guilty if it is beyond reasonable doubt.  To get yourself barred from a casino, there is ok such test.  They could just bar you if they didn't like you.  I am sure Ipoker doesn't go as far as the reasonable doubt, and aren't likely to choose to lose customers without a reasonable suspicion something was going on.  So what has happened is likely somewhere in between.  If they have a series of hands that play out noticeably different to those where Dom/others were in the hand then they could bar them without having to be 100% sure they are guilty.  

Given the potential for a shit storm was always there in this case, I very much doubt that they just ban people because someone had complained as others have stated.  I have probably complained about collusion a handful of times, and on only 2 did the people disappear.  One of the ones where they survived they were not only soft playing, they were discussing it in chat.  I have absolutely no idea what more evidence they needed, but maybe they got away with it as I got a seat too.

I can fully see how the hand histories/reasons for banning weren't revealed, and it has never happened in the cases I saw.  You start publishing how they find people were cheating, then some people are bound to use that info to cheat better.

I haven't had any access to hand histories etc, so can't have any idea what the nature of any alleged collusion was, or whether they are guilty, just can't believe people really think it is just down to the IP sharing.

Hope the final result is the correct one obviously.  

Good Post..

I agree we should be questioning the process instead of the actual content.. It beats me why people are asking for hand histories...

Hate to say it, but members are just going to make fruitless demands without organization.

If you want stop this from happening get organized, if not carry on wasting your time with fruitless demands that will lead to very little... 

 


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: h on February 21, 2014, 05:41:38 PM
wow what a mess this is


i have played as many DTD sats as any one i think
i play them because i rarely play live so if i am going to play live i prefer to play at DTD  
DTD Spends lots of money marketing these sats with freqaunt overlays so i think for me at least playing sats on there made sense before and makes sense still  

However
i feel for both the banned players and the complainant no hand for hand and chat box remaining open leads to paranoia

given the dynamic of multi seat sats i do not believe HH  could  prove or disprove collusion in that sat or any other
in fact if some one was to review the hand histories of two random players who got seats in same sat
i wouldn't be surprised to see similar patterns

the only possible real evidence is folding the nuts surely ?

The reality is i have shoved any two cards into other players when i have needed too and am confident i am getting a fold from everthing except perhaps AA and KK not because i know or am friendly with that player but because it doesn't make sense for a thinking player to call at that point
What happens when that's reviewed if he folds JJ is that because he likes me or because he waiting for two short stacks being forced in against each other

I think Milli posted he folded AA to chipleaders raise  because he didn't need to get involved at that stage surely if any thing this prove there wasn't any collusion as it would be easy for Milli to ship knowing he gets a fold from his mate or did i read that wrong ?

got to say playing on same IP  is not the smartest thing to do if you intend to colluded having said that do players not play on same table live


think the players involved should be speaking to Rob/ Simon directly to try to at least get DTD club ban removed
although if it was me and i knew i had not colluded i want the £1k back  
 





Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: atdc21 on February 21, 2014, 06:08:20 PM
As said earlier i was watching final 2 tables whilst palying cash.
the aa hand as i recall the big stack button who had been jamming limped button, this seemed very standard as sb (the person complaining , was very short), so it would make sense prob for big stack button and bb to take sb, small stack on, normal satty play.  what happened tho was weird and sb folded, leavin bb and button in hand, bb had aces and it went to river, there was bet and call on river, cant remember which way round.
again cant see how any of this play incriminates anyone, i think a series of events have unfolded in a certain way that are open to multiple views,dependant on the viewers bias. very tricky one imo


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: lucky_scrote on February 21, 2014, 06:22:15 PM
Numerous people are saying how collusion is difficult to spot and there are only a few ways to spot it, this simply isn't true. Arguably sometimes it can be intricate but with a very good support team thy would often reach the correct answer.

Around 6 months ago I sent an email to pokerstars about potential collusion between 2 players and they took it very seriously. It took them around 3 days to come to a conclusion keeping me updated on 3 separate occasions. The conclusion was no colluding but the detail stars went into was incredible and they provided evidence why they believed the players weren't colluding. I felt extremely confident and satisfied with the outcome and other support teams should follow this example.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: millidonk on February 21, 2014, 09:28:13 PM
Update

We just wanted to put something out there to clarify our position.

At approximately 3pm today Dusk Till Dawn management provided us with the specific details of the allegations (supplied to them by IPoker this morning).

By 6pm we had both individually responded, in full, to every single concern presented to us. We continue to maintain our stance on this matter and we can see no valid reason why the actions taken against us will not be reconsidered.

Frustratingly DTD have advised us that this could take longer than the weekend (due to IPoker looking into all the facts).

We just wanted to put out this statement to keep people advised of where things are, rather than have our silence be seen as an admission of guilt. The single most important thing in this is are our reputations and we have made that clear throughout. 

Thanks


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 10:10:23 PM
Hypothetical question.

I am playing a satellite on Pokerstars.

We are 3 handed with 2 seats to EPT Grand final on offer.

I have 200k

p1 has 20k

p2 has 20k

P1 is to my left and a lovely picture of Trevor Sinclair as his avatar

P2 is the bb when it's my button and his picture is a montage of Gary Neville, Paul Ince, Alan Shearer, Fergie, John Hartson and Luis Suarez

I don't know either of these two players.

Would it be against the rules to pass every small blind but jam every button and call any sb shove from the bb?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: George2Loose on February 21, 2014, 10:14:01 PM
Why would you keep jamming on Trevor Sinclair?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 10:45:27 PM
Why would you keep jamming on Trevor Sinclair?

I fucked up.

You get the idea though.

Would this be against the rules?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 10:55:57 PM
I forgot to say a laughing Daniel Negreanu is also in P2s avatar.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: henrik777 on February 21, 2014, 10:58:39 PM
Why would you keep jamming on Trevor Sinclair?

I fucked up.

You get the idea though.

Would this be against the rules?

Would it be suspicious ? If it is suspicious then it may be seen to be against the rules.

Sandy


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 21, 2014, 11:17:01 PM
Why would you keep jamming on Trevor Sinclair?

I fucked up.

You get the idea though.

Would this be against the rules?

Would it be suspicious ? If it is suspicious then it may be seen to be against the rules.

Sandy

I take a random dislike to someone, so I stop them winning.

Just another example of how stupid sats are.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: AndrewT on February 21, 2014, 11:47:42 PM
Trevor Sinclair is the nuts


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Ironside on February 22, 2014, 12:24:03 AM
Trevor Sinclair has the nuts

FYP


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: DropTheHammer on February 22, 2014, 12:33:53 AM
The main general lesson to be learned from this is that satellites are not worth playing.

Especially on IPoker where chat is not turned off near the bubble.

If you want to play a big tournament for a fraction of the buy in, use a regular tournament in lieu of a satty.

They are worth playing because not only is there often plenty of overlay to be had (a rarity now-a-days) but there's plenty of people playing them who've no idea of the best strategy to use eg they are trying to win the thing.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: DropTheHammer on February 22, 2014, 12:45:47 AM
To take a decision this quickly I can only assume the findings are quite obvious

It would only take 5 mins for a Poker security to realise (having seen the HH from the start of the tourny) that one guy is folding very stong hands after the same IP guy is opening from an earlier position, when the folder would normally call/3b. I don't think this bust is all about the bubble play (IMO the big stack has every right to select who the hell he wants to qaulify in a satellite, without reprisal), but perhaps due to how things were played out before?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: DropTheHammer on February 22, 2014, 12:50:47 AM
I notice the iPoker security guys aren't rated too highly. Probably lots of personnel changes from when I worked with them, but in those days it was mainly degenerate poker geeks in the roles so they were pretty sound on the background in these sort of cases.

I personally think that your experience of their security dept in the past gives them more credence. Surely it won't be any worse than that, and your experience should (in theory) be at worst the bottom of the trough for expertise?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Doobs on February 22, 2014, 01:59:11 AM
Why would you keep jamming on Trevor Sinclair?

I fucked up.

You get the idea though.

Would this be against the rules?

Would it be suspicious ? If it is suspicious then it may be seen to be against the rules.

Sandy

I take a random dislike to someone, so I stop them winning.

Just another example of how stupid sats are.

I have a feeling that I have seen some rules on one site where you weren't allowed to soft play anyone like this.  Can't remember where I saw it.  Would be a shame if sites started cracking down on spite calls and shoves against the bloke who has just wished you dead on the other table. 

Clearly a bad example. You would have instablocked the Negreanu avatar first time you saw it, so can't imagine it would still be there when you got 3 handed.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Bad Beat on February 22, 2014, 06:17:58 AM
 I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 22, 2014, 01:43:18 PM
I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

These sats are played virtually every week. How can iPoker still be getting it so wrong? How is it not mandatory that they have to have hand for hand and no chat on the bubble. It is such a no brainer it shouldn't even be an option for them not to be. I can almost understand them messing up your quarterly shenanigans but not the bi-weekly sats. I don't see why players should experience suboptimal tournaments because the form is a bit big and clunky.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Bad Beat on February 22, 2014, 06:46:09 PM
 To be fair to them, they do what the skin requests. They certainly have been known to get things wrong but when it's a regular thing that is the same every week it's rare. I'm guessing this was a one of as it had a specific (unique) number of seats as prizes.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: mondatoo on February 22, 2014, 07:00:21 PM
Neil, can you think of one reason why it shouldn't be mandatory that it's always H4H on pure bubble of a sat ?

I'm struggling.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: david3103 on February 22, 2014, 07:35:33 PM
To be fair to them, they do what the skin requests. They certainly have been known to get things wrong but when it's a regular thing that is the same every week it's rare. I'm guessing this was a one of as it had a specific (unique) number of seats as prizes.

I've played my share of satsunami on DTD and never seen any go hand for hand nor have chat closed


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Bad Beat on February 22, 2014, 08:54:51 PM
 In some of the tiny buy-in "private" (Black Belt players) only tournaments we run we don't stop chat. The players like to play those ones for the banter and it's annoying when you type something out and then someone goes all-in or you hit the bubble, and your incredibly witty reply disappears.

 To be honest though it's never me who fills in the forms and I'm not certain if this an optional field decided by the skin. You can decide pretty much everything though so I'd bet you can opt-in or out of that.

 All I know is in five years we've given the job of dealing with all the form filling to six different people and they've all found it incredibly tilting and we've regularly had tournaments where something got missed...we intended 6 seats and there were 5 or we thought we ticked 6-max but we didn't etc.

 I'm not blaming DTD or iPoker for not having chat banned during HFH by the way. It's obv preferable that chat is off, especially in a bigger buy-in sat.

 I'm merely pointing out how mix-ups can happen and, (I can't believe I am actually doing this), defending iPoker (and less reluctantly DTD).


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Mango99 on February 22, 2014, 09:23:39 PM
I fill in the iPoker forms for APAT and can confirm they are pretty tilting in parts.

There is an option to disable observer chat at various stages of the tourney, e.g final table, h4h etc.  However, the actual check-box you need to tick to enable this option is broken, so pretty useless.

There is no option to disable player chat. Perhaps it can be manually requested. Or maybe disabling observer chat disables player chat too. Noone really knows.

A little OT: To be fair, some parts of tourney set-up with iPoker is very good. e.g. the ability to specify you want a tourney repeated every day forever, or every Weds until June, etc. We were previously on Boss, and the maximum time they allowed you to specify a tourney in advance was 4 weeks. This meant you had to send forms in with the same requests and different dates every single month. Mistakes (mainly their end) were frequent. iPoker tourney set up folk seem more on the ball, and have been helpful when I've had a tourney set-up that the forms didn't cater for.

edit: there also appears to be no option to specify h4h at the bubble. It happens on their network-wide tourneys. Not sure how you'd specify it for private tourneys, but agree it should certainly be default.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: easypickings on February 23, 2014, 01:26:26 PM
Can we really trust a network, that is enough of a shambles that it lets two people play in the same house, to have enough expertise, that it can so quickly can to a certain decision on whether there has been collusion in such a specialised scenario of the game?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 23, 2014, 01:28:19 PM
Can we really trust a network, that is enough of a shambles that it lets two people play in the same house, to have enough expertise, that it can so quickly can to a certain decision on whether there has been collusion in such a specialised scenario of the game?

Stu, you can also do this on stars...


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: easypickings on February 23, 2014, 01:30:09 PM
Can we really trust a network, that is enough of a shambles that it lets two people play in the same house, to have enough expertise, that it can so quickly can to a certain decision on whether there has been collusion in such a specialised scenario of the game?

Stu, you can also do this on stars...

in a fairly small field satellite? Then I take it back. However, I would still not trust iPoker to come to such a quick, complicated deicison, on which reputations might depend.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: hotdog on February 23, 2014, 01:48:42 PM
The whole thing is a complete and utter joke!!! It is like sitting next to my mate in a normal live game and we are telling each other what we have got!! Pretty sure this would not be allowed!  DTD needs to sort the chat issue out!! I have won a few seats on the skin but the bubble is hilarious! How this has not been addressed before now is very disappointing!! A company that has done so many great things for poker has got this totally wrong!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TightEnd on February 23, 2014, 01:52:42 PM
The whole thing is a complete and utter joke!!! It is like sitting next to my mate in a normal live game and we are telling each other what we have got!! Pretty sure this would not be allowed!  DTD needs to sort the chat issue out!! I have won a few seats on the skin but the bubble is hilarious! How this has not been addressed before now is very disappointing!! A company that has done so many great things for poker has got this totally wrong!

Nothing like jumping to conclusions, DTD has not got anything "totally wrong"

DTD has repeatedly requested H4H and chat off as standard, as was stated on the thread earlier it was in, and then only partially worked so had to be delayed

It is an IPoker issue and not in the skin's control to do this. DTD would want it, of course


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: hotdog on February 23, 2014, 02:07:41 PM
I've played satellites on the same IP address as possibly up to four or five people hundreds of times. Never colluded. Absolute million iPoker have any proof collusion occurred imo. They could ban people from the site without proof as they dont need it right? But to confiscate a prize worth £1100 I'd imagine they'd want to have pretty decent proof for that

Tis a joke that IPoker allow players in the same tournament from the same IP Address

When setting up tourneys on iPoker there is a box to tick on the request form 'allow players from same IP'. When setting up tourneys for APAT I have ticked this, as know we have a lot of members who are couples and both want to play in our leagues etc.

It's up to each skin if they allow this or not on a tourney by tourney basis. Perhaps for sats it would be better if it wasn't allowed. However, I don't think it really makes a difference. It's just as easy to share info when you're not sat together (skype, phone, etc.).

So is this correct????

If so then DTD have got it totally wrong!!!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: smurf on February 23, 2014, 02:24:39 PM
i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 23, 2014, 02:29:39 PM
i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.

Not talking about this one case.

Talking about IPoker in general.

Should always be H4H on the bubble, shouldn't it?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: hotdog on February 23, 2014, 02:33:14 PM
I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

Also is this true?? If so DTD need to sort it ASAP!!!!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: hotdog on February 23, 2014, 02:38:09 PM
i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.


Totally agree but DTD/I poker need to address the chat and IP address issue. IMO this would not of been such a huge issue if these two small things were in order!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 23, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

Also is this true?? If so DTD need to sort it ASAP!!!!

You do like an exclamation mark!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: hotdog on February 23, 2014, 02:42:19 PM
I have a little experience of iPoker and the creation of tournaments.

 In a regular network-wide tournament or satellite there is no chat during hand for hand play. It is switched off, as it is whenever a player goes all-in.

 If you have a skin, like DTD, you can run "private tournaments". These are events just for your players. To set one up you fill in a form and send it to iPoker. They set it up and it only appears to players on your skin. You specify everything you'd like to about your tournament...would you like NLH, PLO, other game, 6-max, full-ring, ten handed, regular pay-out structure, bounties, how will it be described in the lobby, what will the levels be, will it go hand for hand on every pay jump. There are dozens of variables and you have to carefully go through and tick each one every time you set up a new tournament or satellite that you haven't run before. There is loads of room for errors to be made, or for things to be forgotten, and also for the iPoker person receiving the request to make a mistake. Maybe one week your sat will allow chatting on the bubble, maybe next week the hand for hand will start 10 players out and there will be no chat because you set up your event differently.

 Just trying to say that it isn't quite right to say that iPoker are letting players chat on the bubble.

 Messy situation and one where it's really hard for DTD and iPoker to win whatever they do.

Also is this true?? If so DTD need to sort it ASAP!!!!

You do like an exclamation mark!

Got slightly carried away!!!!!!  ;gobsmacked; ;karabiner;


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 23, 2014, 02:52:54 PM
Furthermore, did the guys on the other table in this very sat get investigated? The chat looked suspicious. Bad Beat blames DTD, DTD blames iPoker, and whilst this goes on some players will lose a bunch of equity. How hard can it be? I'm trying really hard to stay polite here, but not a single other sat should run until it is confirmed that hand for hand will be working. Not even arsed about the chat tbh, I'd let the idiots use it to out themselves.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Mango99 on February 23, 2014, 03:07:31 PM
Furthermore, did the guys on the other table in this very sat get investigated? The chat looked suspicious. Bad Beat blames DTD, DTD blames iPoker, and whilst this goes on some players will lose a bunch of equity. How hard can it be? I'm trying really hard to stay polite here, but not a single other sat should run until it is confirmed that hand for hand will be working. Not even arsed about the chat tbh, I'd let the idiots use it to out themselves.

Bear mind it took iPoker several years to implement synchonised breaks, took them several months (over a year?) to fix a lobby display bug.That there are dozens of bugs and errors that have been in the software for many months/years, that must have been reported several dozen times. But nothing is seemingly done to fix them. Perhaps they are on a roadmap to be fixed at some point? But ipoker are painfully slow at getting anything done.

Basically, I wouldn't hold your breath on waiting for a fix. And I'd imagine it simply isn't feasible to not run another online satellite for a year or more.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: h on February 23, 2014, 03:22:11 PM
i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.

Your of course right if any one wants to collude in an on line games same ip and chat off set up would not be difficult to get round however there is the issue of players perception of the integrity of the game and those two things being right would help reduce the on line poker is rigged mind set
some one else in thread said that it was more important in bigger buy ins but i disagree think its more important in smaller buy ins where the its all rigged view is more prevalent

Are you saying you don't play hands differently depending on your perception of opponents style of play  
you play same way versus me as you do against vindoh  or cornucopia or poker pops
my perception of two involved on line play is two contrasting styles yarp with chips would be a night mare but i would expect him to play differently against different players depending on his view of there likely reaction to his play not wether he knows them or not would you not agree ?
 Therefore there is no way reviewing of hand histories will prove or disprove any thing unless you think everybody plays all hands same way against every other player






Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: dwayne110 on February 23, 2014, 03:23:33 PM
Mr Millidonk confirmed they'd received the allegations and sent responses to each, no?  I think it would be advisable to let the appeal process play out, so many sweeping statements and 'conclusions' being made by people with limited or no access to the facts of said alleged collusion. For the record, I have no knowledge of what happened or the players in question, but it's tilting to read so many black and white conclusions when this issue comes across as particularly grey.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: henrik777 on February 23, 2014, 03:31:05 PM
The standard of proof of the posters on this thread mean feck all. If the card room is satisfied you're cheating you're screwed whether you did it or not.

If there was no suspicion there would be no thread and no ban. There was a suspicion and whether that suspicion is correct or not matters not a jot. Prooving a negative is very difficult. It's not a criminal court or even a civil court with a lesser standard of proof. It's Ipoker and whatever pleases them.

Sandy


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: jack2off on February 23, 2014, 04:14:11 PM
The standard of proof of the posters on this thread mean feck all. If the card room is satisfied you're cheating you're screwed whether you did it or not.

very true!!


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: smurf on February 23, 2014, 04:16:47 PM
i think the chat and ip address issue can become a bit of a red herring here.

You could have different ip addresses and no chat box and one person could very easily skype, facetime, phone etc. their mate on the same table...i would say the issue is the way the hands are played out...and only those involved and those who have looked in to it will know if the play differed towards the two named individuals and anyone else.

Your of course right if any one wants to collude in an on line games same ip and chat off set up would not be difficult to get round however there is the issue of players perception of the integrity of the game and those two things being right would help reduce the on line poker is rigged mind set
some one else in thread said that it was more important in bigger buy ins but i disagree think its more important in smaller buy ins where the its all rigged view is more prevalent

Are you saying you don't play hands differently depending on your perception of opponents style of play  
you play same way versus me as you do against vindoh  or cornucopia or poker pops
my perception of two involved on line play is two contrasting styles yarp with chips would be a night mare but i would expect him to play differently against different players depending on his view of there likely reaction to his play not wether he knows them or not would you not agree ?
 Therefore there is no way reviewing of hand histories will prove or disprove any thing unless you think everybody plays all hands same way against every other player


no i wasn't saying how i would play a hand...i don't know how they look at hand histories or any of the players involved...i would think if player A had played 10,000 hands and had AA 50 times and raised 50 times then he suddenly folds this time then it would look suspicious....THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE...as i say i don't know any of them and wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of collusion whether it was against me or wrongly accused.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TexasGrindEm on February 23, 2014, 04:40:28 PM
Just a small question to ask - are guys, with the same IP address, allowed to sit at the same table in the Club Cash Games? I haven't got a problem with people playing on the same skin at the time in the same house, I am just against the idea of people playing in the same tournament/satellite. I am always wary of what's happening on my tables, keeping notes on them.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 23, 2014, 07:14:47 PM
I know guy and dave and I'm happy to say if they were colluding I would be extremely surprised, even with the evidence itt I still would think there is a less than 1% chance they deliberately colluded, I'm sure there is a chance they sub consciously soft played a little bit, for e.g. Guy has a pretty "meh"  marginal shove opportunity but decided "ah it's my pal in the BB so il make a tight(ish) fold, I don't think that is particularly bad at all as long as it is not pre-determined and decided between in advance.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: TexasGrindEm on February 23, 2014, 07:32:30 PM
I know guy and dave and I'm happy to say if they were colluding I would be extremely surprised, even with the evidence itt I still would think there is a less than 1% chance they deliberately colluded, I'm sure there is a chance they sub consciously soft played a little bit, for e.g. Guy has a pretty "meh"  marginal shove opportunity but decided "ah it's my pal in the BB so il make a tight(ish) fold, I don't think that is particularly bad at all as long as it is not pre-determined and decided between in advance.


To be honest, I think it would be a terrible move - if that sort of move was under investigation and Millidonk had nothing to do with it then I think it would be pretty unfair on him. It would be down to Guy to stand up and say 'I do apologise for soft playing my mate and I'll take full responsibility for what has happened.' - Meaning Dave would get his ban lifted..... Hopefully it won't have to come to that and they are both cleared tbh, but I shan't be holding my breath as the thread starter has been 'proven' correct in what he has alleged.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: T8MML on February 23, 2014, 07:52:02 PM
Been following this closely without comment. Know the guys well and hope beyond all hope they are cleared.

As for the integrity of online poker, this does make me chuckle. Collusion is rife, DTD have a zero tolerance policy and that is to be applauded, but the fact is it is so easily exploitable they haven't got a snowball chance in hell of ever ensuring a 100% clean game. Do the network owners expect that? My guess is they can't really, to police it fully would be too expensive.

Sometimes it's easier to turn a blind eye me thinks



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 23, 2014, 08:35:23 PM
I know guy and dave and I'm happy to say if they were colluding I would be extremely surprised, even with the evidence itt I still would think there is a less than 1% chance they deliberately colluded, I'm sure there is a chance they sub consciously soft played a little bit, for e.g. Guy has a pretty "meh"  marginal shove opportunity but decided "ah it's my pal in the BB so il make a tight(ish) fold, I don't think that is particularly bad at all as long as it is not pre-determined and decided between in advance.


To be honest, I think it would be a terrible move - if that sort of move was under investigation and Millidonk had nothing to do with it then I think it would be pretty unfair on him. It would be down to Guy to stand up and say 'I do apologise for soft playing my mate and I'll take full responsibility for what has happened.' - Meaning Dave would get his ban lifted..... Hopefully it won't have to come to that and they are both cleared tbh, but I shan't be holding my breath as the thread starter has been 'proven' correct in what he has alleged.

I don't think there is anything to ivestigate if that is the case. If you're in the BB and I have a hand I could shove, but wouldn't be ridiculous to fold, like QTo or something and I thought, meh I'll let him keep his BB w/e I like the guy.

Providing we haven't previously discussed colluding in some form then nothing illicit has happened.

Just as in another example like Keith said if I had a hand I really should fold, like 83 or something but I think "f**k this guy I don't like him im gonna try spite bust him/steal his BB" nothing bad has happened there either.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 23, 2014, 09:05:40 PM
I know guy and dave and I'm happy to say if they were colluding I would be extremely surprised, even with the evidence itt I still would think there is a less than 1% chance they deliberately colluded, I'm sure there is a chance they sub consciously soft played a little bit, for e.g. Guy has a pretty "meh"  marginal shove opportunity but decided "ah it's my pal in the BB so il make a tight(ish) fold, I don't think that is particularly bad at all as long as it is not pre-determined and decided between in advance.


To be honest, I think it would be a terrible move - if that sort of move was under investigation and Millidonk had nothing to do with it then I think it would be pretty unfair on him. It would be down to Guy to stand up and say 'I do apologise for soft playing my mate and I'll take full responsibility for what has happened.' - Meaning Dave would get his ban lifted..... Hopefully it won't have to come to that and they are both cleared tbh, but I shan't be holding my breath as the thread starter has been 'proven' correct in what he has alleged.

I don't think there is anything to ivestigate if that is the case. If you're in the BB and I have a hand I could shove, but wouldn't be ridiculous to fold, like QTo or something and I thought, meh I'll let him keep his BB w/e I like the guy.

Providing we haven't previously discussed colluding in some form then nothing illicit has happened.

Just as in another example like Keith said if I had a hand I really should fold, like 83 or something but I think "f**k this guy I don't like him im gonna try spite bust him/steal his BB" nothing bad has happened there either.


If you had raised the last 10 hands including with hands way worse than QT, would you think it was still ok to fold when your mate was in the BB?

It just highlights how terrible satellites are.

Invites collusion/soft play/chip dumping etc etc more than any other type of poker tournament.


Title: My view on this
Post by: robyong on February 23, 2014, 10:36:05 PM
Hi

To be clear, here is my view on this thread, having read it for the first time today;

1. The decision to disqualify the 2 players was entirely Nick (as MD of DTD) and Simon's (as DTD Club Director). The first I knew of this was when I came in at 6pm after a mammoth cash game session the previous night. This decision has 0% to do with the sponsors, Sky, it's a solely DTD decision following conference calls between ipoker and DTD; I understand that ipoker contacted DTD told us that the 2 players would not be paid their prizes based on their review of the actually satellite, the reason given was "Collusion", therefore 11th and 12th were awarded the £1K seat credits.

2. I have read through this thread and I find it bizarre how people are expressing opinions when they are not privy to the actually facts of this case, facts which would be poor etiquette and bad taste to make public. I find it even more bizarre why posters such as Camel want to get so passionately involved when you are more likely to see it start snowing in the DTD card room than for Camel to be seen in DTD, in particular the comments about 'satellites inviting collusion', I find comments like that offensive to the most simple of brains, next thing we will be saying is that walking outside of your house encourages you to be mugged.

3. For the avoidance of doubt, there are only 3 people that can ever speak on behalf of DTD, Simon, me and Nick. Simon has posted on here and made it clear what the position is, anything posted by anyone else, including Tightend, is their opinion as a Blonde member only.

4. I am also gobsmacked that posters on here are demanding hand histories to be posted, we won't get involved in a trial by forum and outing people, this matter is strictly private between DTD and the 2 players, and was dealt with face to face between Simon and the 2 players.

5. Finally, when we make decisions, that's our business, noone has the right to demand we must do this and do that, there is massive choice available to players in both online and live poker, if players don't like what we do, the world is a simple place, speak to us directly rather than flame away publicly, or just don't come into our Club.

Peace.

Rob  


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Ironside on February 23, 2014, 10:42:58 PM
Hi

To be clear, here are my points on this thread;

1. The decision to disqualify the 2 players was entirely Nick (as MD of DTD) and Simon's (as DTD Club Director). The first I knew of this was when I came in at 6pm after a mammoth cash game session the previous night. This decision has 0% to do with the sponsors, Sky, it's a solely DTD decision following conference calls between ipoker and DTD; I understand that ipoker contacted DTD told us that the 2 players would not be paid their prizes based on their review of the actually satellite, the reason given was "Collusion".

2. I have read through this thread and I find it bizarre how people are expressing opinions when they are not privy to the actually facts, I find it even more bizarre why posters such as Camel want to get so passionately involved when you are more likely to see it start snowing in the DTD card room than for Camel to be seen in DTD, in particular the comments about 'satellites inviting collusion', I find comments like that offensive to the most simple of brains, next thing we will be saying is that walking outside of your house encourages you to be mugged.

3. For the avoidance of doubt, there are only 3 people that can ever speak on behalf of DTD, Simon, me and Nick. Simon has posted on here and made it clear what the position is, anything posted by anyone else, including Tightend, is their opinion.

4. Finally I am gobsmacked that posters on here are demanding hand histories to be posted, we won't get involved in a trial by forum and outing people, this matter is strictly between DTD and the 2 players, and was dealt with face to face between Simon and the 2 players.

5. Finally, when we make decisions, that's our business, noone has the right to demand we must do this and do that, there is massive choice available to players in both online and live poker, if players don't like what we do, the world is a simple place, speak to us directly rather than flame away publicly, or don't come into our Club.

Peace.

Rob 


not often i disagree with rob and i find it impossible to disagree with a word he said here

well said rob


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: MPOWER on February 23, 2014, 10:51:28 PM
Hi

To be clear, here are my points on this thread;

1. The decision to disqualify the 2 players was entirely Nick (as MD of DTD) and Simon's (as DTD Club Director). The first I knew of this was when I came in at 6pm after a mammoth cash game session the previous night. This decision has 0% to do with the sponsors, Sky, it's a solely DTD decision following conference calls between ipoker and DTD; I understand that ipoker contacted DTD told us that the 2 players would not be paid their prizes based on their review of the actually satellite, the reason given was "Collusion".

2. I have read through this thread and I find it bizarre how people are expressing opinions when they are not privy to the actually facts, I find it even more bizarre why posters such as Camel want to get so passionately involved when you are more likely to see it start snowing in the DTD card room than for Camel to be seen in DTD, in particular the comments about 'satellites inviting collusion', I find comments like that offensive to the most simple of brains, next thing we will be saying is that walking outside of your house encourages you to be mugged.

3. For the avoidance of doubt, there are only 3 people that can ever speak on behalf of DTD, Simon, me and Nick. Simon has posted on here and made it clear what the position is, anything posted by anyone else, including Tightend, is their opinion.

4. Finally I am gobsmacked that posters on here are demanding hand histories to be posted, we won't get involved in a trial by forum and outing people, this matter is strictly between DTD and the 2 players, and was dealt with face to face between Simon and the 2 players.

5. Finally, when we make decisions, that's our business, noone has the right to demand we must do this and do that, there is massive choice available to players in both online and live poker, if players don't like what we do, the world is a simple place, speak to us directly rather than flame away publicly, or don't come into our Club.

Peace.

Rob 


not often i disagree with rob and i find it impossible to disagree with a word he said here

well said rob


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 23, 2014, 11:05:51 PM
Furthermore, did the guys on the other table in this very sat get investigated? The chat looked suspicious. Bad Beat blames DTD, DTD blames iPoker, and whilst this goes on some players will lose a bunch of equity.  I'm trying really hard to stay polite here, but not a single other sat should run until it is confirmed that hand for hand will be working. Not even arsed about the chat tbh, I'd let the idiots use it to out themselves.
Rob can we get H4H sorted out? Do you know if iPoker investigated the other table too? If not I'll stick the complaint in myself later tonight.

People wanted to look at the hand histories to investigate/decide themselves. I wouldn't particularly trust iPoker here, correctly or not I'm not sure. It is absolutely understandable you want to avoid trial by forum, but I feel like people think they have something to offer regarding collusion detection.

The Camel meant the format itself invites collusion, this is clearly true. Colluding in sats has a much greater and obvious benefit in comparison to most formats of poker. In mtts/cash nothing is of much value (chipdumping has some limited value as does sqzing out players etc) but in sats people often can "help" others for very little cost, by either giving walks or chip dumping. This is just an unfortunate fact due to the format. Personally I like them as an event type but that doesn't mean I'm not aware of the flaws.

I'm also begrudgingly going to comment on your reference to Camel's dtd appearances with a comparison. I've never been to the wsop but I should definitely be allowed to comment on the start of affairs there. This probably shouldn't hold much weight as although I'm not a customer, I'm a potential customer.

Fwiw, the Omaha comp this week was one of the best tournaments I've played in. The structure was almost too good. Incredible week of poker.

P.S I meant to try and have a word with you about Edinburgh but I didn't really get chance. I'd send a pm but its a conversation better had in person.

edit: I didn't moan too much about h4h before because I knew about it and would timebank but it really does screw over recreational players and people at their table too.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 23, 2014, 11:08:50 PM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: kano on February 23, 2014, 11:34:03 PM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.

Spoke to one of collusion guys earlier. He said half of the team have cried themselves to sleep past couple of nights, sad state of affairs.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 23, 2014, 11:35:31 PM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.

Spoke to one of collusion guys earlier. He said half of the team have cried themselves to sleep past couple of nights, sad state of affairs.

:)


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: byronkincaid on February 24, 2014, 03:18:53 AM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.

i don't think anybody has ever accused ipoker of being honest, trustworthy or competent.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 03:20:26 AM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.

Because I was colluded against on IPoker and they said there wasn't enough evidence.

Haven't played another hand on the network since.


Title: Re: My view on this
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 03:36:07 AM
Hi

To be clear, here is my view on this thread, having read it for the first time today;

1. The decision to disqualify the 2 players was entirely Nick (as MD of DTD) and Simon's (as DTD Club Director). The first I knew of this was when I came in at 6pm after a mammoth cash game session the previous night. This decision has 0% to do with the sponsors, Sky, it's a solely DTD decision following conference calls between ipoker and DTD; I understand that ipoker contacted DTD told us that the 2 players would not be paid their prizes based on their review of the actually satellite, the reason given was "Collusion", therefore 11th and 12th were awarded the £1K seat credits.

2. I have read through this thread and I find it bizarre how people are expressing opinions when they are not privy to the actually facts of this case, facts which would be poor etiquette and bad taste to make public. I find it even more bizarre why posters such as Camel want to get so passionately involved when you are more likely to see it start snowing in the DTD card room than for Camel to be seen in DTD, in particular the comments about 'satellites inviting collusion', I find comments like that offensive to the most simple of brains, next thing we will be saying is that walking outside of your house encourages you to be mugged.

3. For the avoidance of doubt, there are only 3 people that can ever speak on behalf of DTD, Simon, me and Nick. Simon has posted on here and made it clear what the position is, anything posted by anyone else, including Tightend, is their opinion as a Blonde member only.

4. I am also gobsmacked that posters on here are demanding hand histories to be posted, we won't get involved in a trial by forum and outing people, this matter is strictly private between DTD and the 2 players, and was dealt with face to face between Simon and the 2 players.

5. Finally, when we make decisions, that's our business, noone has the right to demand we must do this and do that, there is massive choice available to players in both online and live poker, if players don't like what we do, the world is a simple place, speak to us directly rather than flame away publicly, or just don't come into our Club.

Peace.

Rob  


My main point was this thread shouldn't exist.

The guys are being accused of something very serious.

And I don't think it's right to air these accusations in public until it is proved.

As the thread does exist, I think they should be allowed to post HHs (if they want to) to help prove their innocence.

I think a few hours is very quick to come to the conclusion they did cheat - but once IPoker did decide they did, DTD definitely did the right thing taking them out of the tournament.

As for the other point I don't think there is any doubt there is more instances of collusion in MTT satellites then regular tournaments.

It's human nature really. You've guaranteed yourself a seat in a big tournament as massive chip leader but your mate is struggling with 5 big blinds with 2 people to go before he wins a seat.

You want your mate to get in. Going hard on strangers big blinds while only raising your mates bb when you have a premium hand is almost natural. But that is cheating, right?

I've been playing a long time, I've never heard people in regular tournaments openly discuss colluding, but I have more than once in satellites. "If we all fold to the big blind every hand, we'll all get a seat" or some such nonsense.

The very nature of satellites encourage collusion. I haven't seen any argument which sways me from that view.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: T8MML on February 24, 2014, 03:33:07 PM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.

i don't think anybody has ever accused ipoker of being honest, trustworthy or competent.

This did make me lol



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: david3103 on February 24, 2014, 03:55:55 PM
Why are so many people against the ipoker collusion team? Seems that a lot of people think they would be better qualified to assess, than the team would.

i don't think anybody has ever accused ipoker of being honest, trustworthy or competent.

This did make me lol



The need for satellites, particularly mega sats with 20+seats on offer, to go H4H in the closing stages and for chat to be off was agreed nearly a year ago, and yet it still doesn't happen.

Given that I think we would all trust DTD to be honest trustworthy and competent and that we pretty much have to assume that they are satisfied that iPoker is, at a minimum, honest and trustworthy it seems that the major issue is the competence of iPoker.

We have to trust Rob, Simon and especially Nick to push for this to happen soon. Meantime, maybe there could be moderators watching the latter stages of megaSats and acting appropriately when they see transgression.


Title: Re: My view on this
Post by: mondatoo on February 24, 2014, 04:08:59 PM
You want your mate to get in. Going hard on strangers big blinds while only raising your mates bb when you have a premium hand is almost natural. But that is cheating, right?

Is this cheating ?

For instance, I jam much wider vs randoms than I do versus regs as std; I know a random isn't aware of my ranges as my mate would be so I'm happy punishing them whilst not pushing it as much against him as he might spite call me, so do I now have to play a sub optimal strategy imo and I'm not allowed to have any sort of prerogative to make what I see as the best decisions for me in and around a sat otherwise it might look like collusion.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 24, 2014, 04:24:54 PM
posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 04:40:48 PM
posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Meh, I'm tired of posting this, but one last time. I knew my posts would get misconstrued. Wish I hadn't posted in the first place.

I don't think HHs should be posted here, unless Guy and Dave want to.

The thread shouldn't exist, but as it does, they should be allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit.

I am very friendly with Dom, I think he's a top bloke.

I am not on the side of Guy and Dave over Dom.

Just don't think discussing collusion allegations on a public forum is a fair thing to do.


Title: Re: My view on this
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 04:44:35 PM
You want your mate to get in. Going hard on strangers big blinds while only raising your mates bb when you have a premium hand is almost natural. But that is cheating, right?

Is this cheating ?

For instance, I jam much wider vs randoms than I do versus regs as std; I know a random isn't aware of my ranges as my mate would be so I'm happy punishing them whilst not pushing it as much against him as he might spite call me, so do I now have to play a sub optimal strategy imo and I'm not allowed to have any sort of prerogative to make what I see as the best decisions for me in and around a sat otherwise it might look like collusion.

I don't know if it's cheating or not. Hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.

Game play at the end of a satellite is very complicated. Moves which in a normal tournament would be standard, are certainly not standard in a satty.

That's why I was very surprised that IPoker concluded that Guy and Dave had cheated so quickly.

Maybe the evidence was overwhelming and compelling.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 24, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Meh, I'm tired of posting this, but one last time. I knew my posts would get misconstrued. Wish I hadn't posted in the first place.

I don't think HHs should be posted here, unless Guy and Dave want to.

The thread shouldn't exist, but as it does, they should be allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit.

I am very friendly with Dom, I think he's a top bloke.

I am not on the side of Guy and Dave over Dom.

Just don't think discussing collusion allegations on a public forum is a fair thing to do.

I don't think my post was disagreeing with you or mis-construing your posts Keith...


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 04:59:34 PM
posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



Meh, I'm tired of posting this, but one last time. I knew my posts would get misconstrued. Wish I hadn't posted in the first place.

I don't think HHs should be posted here, unless Guy and Dave want to.

The thread shouldn't exist, but as it does, they should be allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit.

I am very friendly with Dom, I think he's a top bloke.

I am not on the side of Guy and Dave over Dom.

Just don't think discussing collusion allegations on a public forum is a fair thing to do.

I don't think my post was disagreeing with you or mis-construing your posts Keith...

Fair enough. Sorry.

I think Rob definitely didn't get the gist of what I was trying to say though.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 24, 2014, 05:34:07 PM
id agree with that.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: EvilPie on February 24, 2014, 05:37:57 PM
posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



If there were some specific hands that led to the disqualification I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

To be honest I find it quite worrying that I might play a sat, win it and then subsequently find myself being removed from my seat at DTD and barred for life.

If there are some specific hands then I'd like to know if they are hands that I would consider standard. If they are then I'm afraid I'd have to choose not to play the sats any more for fear of being dq'd for doing nothing wrong. We're not just talking about £1100 here we're talking about being accused of cheating and then kicked out of a live comp. It's not a pleasant thought at all.

The thing I find most worrying about this whole sorry situation is the inconsistency. If someone has cheated then yes they should be disqualified but everyone who plays the iPoker/DTD sats will have seen it loads of times with no consequences. Maybe it's because it hasn't been reported before I don't know, I certainly haven't reported it although I've definitely seen it.

Regarding general collusion in satellites I actually thought that was the point. Once you get to the late stages the whole idea is to pick on one or 2 short stacks and try to knock them out. Surely if you've paid your entry fee you should get to decide who you pick on? I know that if I'm lucky enough to get that deep in a sat with a decent stack I'll target one or two players specifically and try to wear them down and force them all in. Decent sat players can see who the targets are and they then join in, on iPoker unfortunately even the crap players join in because some idiots start telling them what to do in the chat box.

One final point. On the final hand when the shorty is all in and everyone flats and then checks it down should everyone be dq'd?



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: NEWY on February 24, 2014, 05:48:08 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ great post.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 24, 2014, 06:00:18 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: EvilPie on February 24, 2014, 06:07:40 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 24, 2014, 06:10:27 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.



Thinks it's important for people to notice you didn't deny I could have you.

Secondly. I agree that the majority of us probably would try and help our mate. Admitting it though is something else.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: nirvana on February 24, 2014, 06:15:33 PM
Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.

Had this exact conversation on Saturday with 2 people. I would say all 3 of us would be considered to be reasonably fair minded, on the level kind of people. But we all agreed that, without having pre-planned things, we'd knock a random out ahead of a mate.

I guess one conclusion to that could be that basic human nature is to place loyalty ahead of integrity - not earth shattering I know but kinda supports Camel's point that all sats at some point must become fundamentally unfair/collusive.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: celtic on February 24, 2014, 06:18:16 PM
Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.

Had this exact conversation on Saturday with 2 people. I would say all 3 of us would be considered to be reasonably fair minded, on the level kind of people. But we all agreed that, without having pre-planned things, we'd knock a random out ahead of a mate.

I guess one conclusion to that could be that basic human nature is to place loyalty ahead of integrity - not earth shattering I know but kinda supports Camel's point that all sats at some point must become fundamentally unfair/collusive.

Probably shouldn't be restricted to just sats. Final tables if mtt's can be included. I've even seen some strange stuff in cash games.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 06:19:21 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.



Thinks it's important for people to notice you didn't deny I could have you.

Secondly. I agree that the majority of us probably would try and help our mate. Admitting it though is something else.

It's absolutely human nature to help out a mate.

And to try to knock out someone you dislike.

And it's the fault of the satellite tournament structure not the players involved.

With regards to this case, the big question is: do we trust IPoker's collusion team to understand the difference between "normal" collusion that's inherent in satellites and abnormal collusion which would involve players getting dqed and banned from DTD for life?

As I've said at least 3 times in this thread, it seems to me a few hours seems a very short amount of time to the conclusion they cheated.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 06:53:15 PM
Just re read all my posts in this thread.

I would like Rob to point out which ones he objects to.

Just because I don't go to DTD very often I can't have an opinion on multi table satellites or IPoker?

Really think his criticism of me is pretty unfair.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Killerkilsby on February 24, 2014, 07:09:45 PM
 Wish this thread remained closed.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Karabiner on February 24, 2014, 07:34:12 PM
I think some very good points worthy of debate have been raised.

It is after after all the Blonde Poker forum where we discuss all things poker-related and all things that our members wish to invite opinion upon.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: mondatoo on February 24, 2014, 08:05:22 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ great post.

To be honest. It's not. Well, it's not bad. And matt is a big fker. I could have him though, so I'm not scared. It's a good post, relating to a general situation, but doesn't really apply to this particular situation. IMO.

It's deliberately general if that helps elevate it a little more towards being 'great'. I wanted it to be general so that it didn't appear biased because it isn't intended to be.

As Camel says there's an inherent problem with satellites in that collusion has to happen at some point. How you police it and to what level is the problem.

Can we all be honest as well and admit that if we're in a 10 seat satellite and we have the choice of knocking out some random we've never met or our best friend in the whole world then we're going to choose the random. It's just natural that you do it and anyone who says they don't is lying.



Obv this.

Folding AA vs them bvb is obv cheating if your going ballistic vs everyone else, but surely it should be my choice if i want to jam atc vs everyone else but be a bit tighter on said mates bb, no way speculating on what actually happened but just seems nobody knows where the line is for what's cheating and what's not.

Nevermind backers and horses.

Would love to know how many people have been banned on iPoker for collusion in a sat.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 24, 2014, 08:45:34 PM
Disagree Matt, we BOTH know we'd take up any two to knock out Bopkin if our own seat was basically a guarantee. Agree in general though :)



Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: StuartHopkin on February 24, 2014, 09:16:43 PM
Disagree Matt, we BOTH know we'd take up any two to knock out Bopkin if our own seat was basically a guarantee. Agree in general though :)



Absolute Boppleberries!



Title: ipoker collusion report
Post by: robyong on February 24, 2014, 09:27:00 PM
I have now been sent a very detailed report from ipoker, after reading the contents of this report 3 times over, it would be completely, absolutely and utterly impossible for me or anyone at DTD to argue on behalf of the 2 players' with ipoker. The decisions DTD have made stand and the matter is closed as far as further comment from me, Nick or Simon.

On a personal note, I would have preferred this public thread not to have been opened by Dominic, I think this was bad etiquette, DTD could have been contacted directly and the result would have been exactly the same. I am not a fan of 'outing people', even more so before there is proof, at the point this thread was opened there was not conclusive proof. Whist the original poster has now been proven right, he could not have 'known this' for certain' at the time of 'outing' the 2 players, so if anyone has any issues with suspected collusion in the future, please contact us directly and we will investigate immediately.

No one wants a fair game, happy members and a buoyant Blondepoker forum more than me.

Rob


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Woodsey on February 24, 2014, 09:28:06 PM
In before demands to see it lol  ;popcorn;


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: The Camel on February 24, 2014, 09:38:28 PM
EvilPie, Mondatoo, GreekStein and nirvana all agree that people are likely to collude at the end of satellites to help out mates v randoms.

Are they saying something which is "offensive to the most simple of brains, next thing we will be saying is that walking outside of your house encourages you to be mugged" too?

Pretty unhappy with Rob's post to be honest.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: SuuPRlim on February 24, 2014, 09:40:18 PM
posting the hands in this thread would be ridiculous. How this has been handled is completely stnd from poker operators, Pokerstars frequently uncover cheating and send people emails saying "You were victim of cheating and you are being compensated with $X" and then when you ask for further details they say they are not permitted to provide them, even the screen names of those who cheated.

It's not for anyone here to contribute to the decision thats for ipoker+DTD - I do however disagree that people posting their opinions on the topic ITT is out of order, yes most opinions that are posted will be slightly bias and pretty mis-informed but this is a public poker forum, if bias and mis-informed posts were out of order then no-one would ever post anything lol.



If there were some specific hands that led to the disqualification I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

To be honest I find it quite worrying that I might play a sat, win it and then subsequently find myself being removed from my seat at DTD and barred for life.

If there are some specific hands then I'd like to know if they are hands that I would consider standard. If they are then I'm afraid I'd have to choose not to play the sats any more for fear of being dq'd for doing nothing wrong. We're not just talking about £1100 here we're talking about being accused of cheating and then kicked out of a live comp. It's not a pleasant thought at all.

The thing I find most worrying about this whole sorry situation is the inconsistency. If someone has cheated then yes they should be disqualified but everyone who plays the iPoker/DTD sats will have seen it loads of times with no consequences. Maybe it's because it hasn't been reported before I don't know, I certainly haven't reported it although I've definitely seen it.

Regarding general collusion in satellites I actually thought that was the point. Once you get to the late stages the whole idea is to pick on one or 2 short stacks and try to knock them out. Surely if you've paid your entry fee you should get to decide who you pick on? I know that if I'm lucky enough to get that deep in a sat with a decent stack I'll target one or two players specifically and try to wear them down and force them all in. Decent sat players can see who the targets are and they then join in, on iPoker unfortunately even the crap players join in because some idiots start telling them what to do in the chat box.

One final point. On the final hand when the shorty is all in and everyone flats and then checks it down should everyone be dq'd?



The point is Matt - those HH's are private, and unless very good reason is provided (defo no such reason in this thread) then posting them on a public board would be out of order, DTD would certainly be massively in the wrong if they did that, which is I imagine why they didn't. If we get into a habbit of sharing confidential information because there is sufficient demand for it then it's a very slippery slope.

The final hand everyone calls and checks down is not cheating or colluding, it's gamesmanship, cheating and colluding can only occur when it's pre-determined or discussed, so if a short stack is AI in the BB, i'm on the BTN and you're in the SB and we decide to check it down independantly because that's the smart thing to do that is fine. If I msg you on skype or say in chat "Lets check this down" then we're colluding.


Title: Re: ipoker collusion report
Post by: millidonk on February 24, 2014, 10:17:41 PM
I have now been sent a very detailed report from ipoker, after reading the contents of this report 3 times over, it would be completely, absolutely and utterly impossible for me or anyone at DTD to argue on behalf of the 2 players' with ipoker. The decisions DTD have made stand and the matter is closed as far as further comment from me, Nick or Simon.

On a personal note, I would have preferred this public thread not to have been opened by Dominic, I think this was bad etiquette, DTD could have been contacted directly and the result would have been exactly the same. I am not a fan of 'outing people', even more so before there is proof, at the point this thread was opened there was not conclusive proof. Whist the original poster has now been proven right, he could not have 'known this' for certain' at the time of 'outing' the 2 players, so if anyone has any issues with suspected collusion in the future, please contact us directly and we will investigate immediately.

No one wants a fair game, happy members and a buoyant Blondepoker forum more than me.

Rob

This is all news to me. I find it strange that we haven't been made aware of this, yet have been in frequent contact with Nick. The last we heard was that the collusion team finished work at 5pm today and seemingly they hadn't finished reviewing our case yet.. did someone put in some overtime?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: kano on February 25, 2014, 01:26:16 AM
The banned players should upload their full hand histories from the satellite to the forum, now that DTD consider this matter closed.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: corkeye on February 25, 2014, 07:22:18 AM
The banned players should upload their full hand histories from the satellite to the forum, now that DTD consider this matter closed.

Wait... wat?


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: theprawnidentity on February 25, 2014, 07:43:13 AM
Ray touched on a point that I would like to have clarified.  Hypothetically speaking, if I am on the bubble of a satty and one of my horses is in the bb, if we haven't communicated with each other in any way and I give him a walk (it's in my own interests after all), is this collusion?

Assuming I am the big stack and the horse is a short stack, I would be burning my own money by shoving.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: theprawnidentity on February 25, 2014, 08:08:32 AM
The banned players should upload their full hand histories from the satellite to the forum, now that DTD consider this matter closed.

Also this is completely pointless.  It changes nothing in the eyes of DTD / iPoker and wouldn't benefit anyone.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Doobs on February 25, 2014, 08:29:21 AM
Ray touched on a point that I would like to have clarified.  Hypothetically speaking, if I am on the bubble of a satty and one of my horses is in the bb, if we haven't communicated with each other in any way and I give him a walk (it's in my own interests after all), is this collusion?

Assuming I am the big stack and the horse is a short stack, I would be burning my own money by shoving.

The minute you start playing two stacks you are cheating/colluding.  Even if you have a share in two or more stacks at the table, you should play against these people as if you have no financial interest in them. It may not be on the scale of the Chinese Double or Nothing factory, but it doesn't make it much better.

I don't really understand why everybody who has a big stack seems in such a rush to try and help their mates, or knock out strangers.  Just go make yourself a brew, you are safe, let the shorties do their thing. 





Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: GreekStein on February 25, 2014, 08:34:21 AM
Ray touched on a point that I would like to have clarified.  Hypothetically speaking, if I am on the bubble of a satty and one of my horses is in the bb, if we haven't communicated with each other in any way and I give him a walk (it's in my own interests after all), is this collusion?

Assuming I am the big stack and the horse is a short stack, I would be burning my own money by shoving.

The minute you start playing two stacks you are cheating/colluding.  Even if you have a share in two or more stacks at the table, you should play against these people as if you have no financial interest in them. It may not be on the scale of the Chinese Double or Nothing factory, but it doesn't make it much better.

I don't really understand why everybody who has a big stack seems in such a rush to try and help their mates, or knock out strangers.  Just go make yourself a brew, you are safe, let the shorties do their thing. 





Right in theory, in practice this is nonsense.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: Doobs on February 25, 2014, 09:11:50 AM
Ray touched on a point that I would like to have clarified.  Hypothetically speaking, if I am on the bubble of a satty and one of my horses is in the bb, if we haven't communicated with each other in any way and I give him a walk (it's in my own interests after all), is this collusion?

Assuming I am the big stack and the horse is a short stack, I would be burning my own money by shoving.

The minute you start playing two stacks you are cheating/colluding.  Even if you have a share in two or more stacks at the table, you should play against these people as if you have no financial interest in them. It may not be on the scale of the Chinese Double or Nothing factory, but it doesn't make it much better.

I don't really understand why everybody who has a big stack seems in such a rush to try and help their mates, or knock out strangers.  Just go make yourself a brew, you are safe, let the shorties do their thing. 





Right in theory, in practice this is nonsense.

 Guess we just do things differently.  I really can't remember the last time I did anything like this, and really don't want anyone doing it for me.  Just can't see how people can complain about others cheating them with a straight face, and then do stuff like this themselves.  When I read this thread yesterday, I was thinking maybe if I knew someone was near broke I might given them a walk, but then I thought if they choose to pay outside their roll I am not really going to help them.  They'll just go broke in another game.  Maybe if someone's house is at stake? 

If somebody has just given me a bunch of abuse, then I would probably play them differently, but that is more a leak than collusion?

Have you played Omaha at the same table as your backer before?  I assume you did that and played fair, so can't see why you think what I say is nonsense.  I don't see why you'd do that and then play a sat differently.

All this feels like a distraction, think the OP accused them of more than just a bit of softplay.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: NEWY on February 25, 2014, 10:00:46 AM
Ray touched on a point that I would like to have clarified.  Hypothetically speaking, if I am on the bubble of a satty and one of my horses is in the bb, if we haven't communicated with each other in any way and I give him a walk (it's in my own interests after all), is this collusion?

Assuming I am the big stack and the horse is a short stack, I would be burning my own money by shoving.

Not collusion cos u haven't colluded with anyone. Collusion is an agreement between 2 or more parties and has u haven't communicated with them u haven't colluded. Maybe u are guilty of soft playing which of course is not allowed either.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: outragous76 on February 25, 2014, 10:20:18 AM
I am astounded that a company (Dusk Till Dawn) claim that they have no desire to air their issues on a public forum, and yet their owner feels it is appropriate to post the "outcome" of an investigation on a forum prior to advising the parties involved of the alleged findings.

Given the serious nature of the allegations against me (and David), and the manner in which Dusk Till Dawn have conducted themselves I think it is important to put some facts out there, so that people can understand the situation, and how Dusk Till Dawn have conducted themselves in this matter.

1.   We have not seen a single piece of evidence to suggest any form of collusion between us. This has been requested but denied. 

2.   We have been provided with 5 hands (in a vacuum) and asked to comment upon them which we have done.  None of these hands show collusion.

3.   We have not seen a single piece of correspondence from Ipoker in respect of this matter. This has been requested but denied.

4.   Dusk Till Dawn have not responded to a single query we have raised. We have requested copies of all correspondence between DTD & Ipoker, which has been refused. We specifically requested the copies of correspondence which DTD have issued in our defence, this was also refused.

5.   We have been refused sight of the report which allegedly confirms our collusion.

6.   We have been refused access to a copy of the full Hand History, or access to the client in order that we could retrieve the hand history for ourselves.

7.   We proposed a Satellite/ICM expert to be appointed as mediator/adjudicator and this request was ignored.

The list could go on but they are the salient points.


In short, we have been accused of something which could significantly harm our reputations in poker. We have not been given any opportunity to provide an explanation (with the exception of commenting on 5 hands).

We have subsequently been advised of our alleged guilt on a public forum, without a single jot of evidence being presented to us. We have not been offered any recourse. We have been refused contact with Ipoker. Dusk Till Dawn have refused to correspond to our queries.

I am not sure what kind of justice this is supposed to represent but it isn’t one that I recognise.

I would like to make it clear that I have no desire for Dusk Till Dawn to represent my interests in this matter. They have made it quite clear that my best interests are not what they have in mind given their actions. I would like to be able to represent myself directly with Ipoker with experts in satellite strategy to comment upon the hands. I also expect the hands to be given consideration along with the game flow and not in a vacuum.

As I have done I will continue to clear my name in a private manner.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: easypickings on February 25, 2014, 01:39:38 PM
Massively agree with what Guy says.

This is not a case of two guys losing a £1,000 seat. This is case of two guys losing a £1,000 seat, and their reputation being threatened. I would imagine both would happily lose any number of £1,000 seats in exchange for a fair hearing now. It is very important they are given a detailed and through analysis of everything that went into making the decision.

At the same time, I feel it's very unfair on Dom to be left with any feeling that "he shouldn't have posted this in the first place" The decision to post it will have been a very difficult one, and he will have been aware that it was a gamble. Be found out to be wrong, and look silly and bitter.

He will also have assumed that if it was wrong to make the original post, it would simply be deleted. It doesn't seem fair on him to let it run for days, and then criticise his decision to make it.

He will have taken no pleasure at all in the last few days, and despite being £1,000 the richer, I'm sure will wish that he hadn't played the sat in the first place.


Title: Re: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..
Post by: treefella on February 25, 2014, 07:04:59 PM
 Clearly all the facts are not being divulged here.Im sure DTD have valid reason to come to their conclusion and its not a decision that has been taken lightly.

 Pretty certain most mates are not going to take each other on playing in the same house in the same sat on the same table for a 1k seat when there are several seats as prizes.I think we can all agree on that.

What if this is NOT just one satellite  where the said two players have played under the very same circumstances ?
There are probably a lot more hand histories from previous sats that show a pattern that would quite easily be picked up as soft play , collusion, whatever you want to call it . This decision would then make a lot more sense.

It does appear that these two guys are going to struggle to prove their innocence if they are getting no response from DTD or Ipoker other than your banned gtfo.

Makes the sats not really worth playing if your mates playing it too, just incase he folds the AA on you when a seat is locked up :)