Shark's Scope

[tikay]

It's amazing how powerful Sharkscope is, & yet a goodly portion of the player-base has never even heard of it, does not know what it does, or how it does it.

9 months ago, 888 took the decision to forbid it's use on their site. Sharkscope weren't best pleased, but nobody died.

That decision is, broadly, explained here, in a piece dated June 2013.......

http://calvinayre.com/2013/06/28/poker/888-poker-blocks-sharkscope-tracking-site/


At around the same time, or maybe a little while earlier, 'Stars, who tend to get things right more often than not, changed their set up, & forced Sharkscope to adopt an Opt-In system, see.....



http://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room-news/tourney-tracking-sites-go-to-full-opt-in-as-pokerstars-data-crackdown-continues/


More......

[tikay]

I was reminded of this a few days whilst playing Online, Next Door.

I was playing some small-ball PLO8 SNG's, & a kid made a bad call (it was bad) & got there. Billy Big-Gob - who, as you will have guessed, lost the hand -  then relentlessly abused the bloke, even copying his Stats into the chat box.  The hapless "fish" was on several Tables during the evening, & though Billy The Gob was no longer playing, he pursued him from table to table.

I wrote via PM to the lad who had been abused the next day, to give him a bit of moral support. He never replied, & he's not been seen on the Tables since.

Maybe he is too sensitive. Maybe he just does not feel comfortable, when he sits down each night for his bit of poker fun & relaxation, once the kids are in bed & the wife is watching Brookside, at the thought of being shown up & humiliated in front of other players. We are not all keyboard warriors, many of us play poker to get away from the woes of our daily lives.

Do you think he is an exception, or that this sort of thing has an effect - even if small - on the poker economy?

Online Poker needs to take a look at itself if it is to flourish. And that is in all our interests.   

[tikay]

On the "chat-box abuse" front, DTD have tried to do their bit, too, by monitoring the cash Games, & offering "real-name" play. I've no idea if it has been a success, but I hope it has.

The Sharkscope debate took place Next Door about 6 months ago, & what was most remarkable was the number of players who did not know how Sharkscope worked.

Most, from what I could see, were against it's use (the site forbids third party software which aids tracking), but many of them were openly hostile to the site for selling the info to Sharkscope, or providing Sharkscope with the data. 

In case anyone here thinks the same, sites do NOT sell the info to Sharkscope, nor do they provide the data. Sharkscope simply collect the info by data-mining, & then, after processing & collating it, sells it to Users. They do not seek the "approval" of the Site to do this, they just take it.

888 have now closed that door, & the mighty & magnificent 'Stars have made it opt-in ONLY.

Should other sites do the same, if so, which of the two options, the 888 route, or the 'Stars route?

I should add that I use Sharkscope every day, not for Table Selection purposes, but simply, when I see a player I don't recognize, I want a head start on knowing if he is profitable or not, as this assists me in deciding how best to play against him. If Sharkscope did not exist, it would not bother me though, as I'd not be at a disadvantage to anyone, we'd all be in the same boat.

I'm interested in your views on this matter generally.

I've no idea what the correct answer is, but I do think it behoves us all to remember that recreational poker players are far & away the biggest & most important segment of the poker economy. So the answer does matter - to them.

[RED-DOG]

I don't like tracking software, mainly because I don't have the skills or the inclination to make good use of it.

I think the main effect of tracking software, especially HUDs, is to shift the balance of power in favour of those who are tech-savvy enough to use it well.

Is that good for poker? No. (imo)  

[shipitgood]

Hey mr tikay!

As I said on the post a while back, I really like sharkscope to track my own progress predominantly. It's also good to check out players I'm playing against in mtt.s or hu sit and gos.

Remember during the last topic people were saying it gives you an unfair advantage, can't say I agree with that in the slightest. At the end of the day it doesn't,to tell you how they play simply if they are profitable or not.

Abuse in  a chat box is the real issue. It just so happens in this instance sharkscope was being used to berate some one. I agree with the new rules brought into deal with those who insult others over sharkscope.

I doubt tit would make the player want 2 stop playing. I had it a month a ago, a reg called me down really light, started having a go at me in the chatbox which went onto him telling me his sharkscope was better than mine lol

It happens, the real issue is chat box warriors.

[mondatoo]

It clearly is an advantage, but it's almost impossible to have any interest in poker and do the tinniest bit of research to find out about all the software available, so if you don't know, you don't care.

[RED-DOG]

It clearly is an advantage, but it's almost impossible to have any interest in poker and do the tinniest bit of research to find out about all the software available, so if you don't know, you don't care.

I can't work out what you mean Mond.

[arbboy]

As a guy who has played far too many relatively high stake stt's over the past 8 years for my own good i always wondered why sites ever allowed SS to record their info if it is that easy to block the ability for SS to record it like 888 seem to have done.  It adds nothing to the site's bottom line in the slightest it just allows 'pros' to win quicker and the sites 'churn' less rake out of every £100 deposited by 'rec's'.  Its massively in any site's interest to block SS use as pro's who gain the most from it will still play anyway.

[mondatoo]

It clearly is an advantage, but it's almost impossible to have any interest in poker and do the tinniest bit of research to find out about all the software available, so if you don't know, you don't care.

I can't work out what you mean Mond.

I mean I'm sure I'm being levelled, but anyways.

Google software for poker, I'm sure sharkscope will soon pop up, so I don't feel bad for people who are unaware, there just lazy or don't care.

But as I said it's clearly an advantage.

[celtic]

In before page 28.

[tikay]

It clearly is an advantage, but it's almost impossible to have any interest in poker and do the tinniest bit of research to find out about all the software available, so if you don't know, you don't care.

I can't work out what you mean Mond.

I mean I'm sure I'm being levelled, but anyways.

Google software for poker, I'm sure sharkscope will soon pop up, so I don't fell bad for people who are unaware, there just lazy or don't care.

But as I said it's clearly an advantage.

They care if they get abused because of it, Ray, even if they don't  understand where the info arose from.

[TightEnd]

Google software for poker, I'm sure sharkscope will soon pop up, so I don't fell bad for people who are unaware, there just lazy or don't care.

too harsh. many recreational players aren't comfortable with software, downloading it, using it, analysing it

Its not they are lazy, don't care....the existence of it puts them off playing more


this is about growing the market, arresting the rate of decline of the market etc. Perception is everything to attracting those players

[RED-DOG]

It clearly is an advantage, but it's almost impossible to have any interest in poker and do the tinniest bit of research to find out about all the software available, so if you don't know, you don't care.

I can't work out what you mean Mond.

I mean I'm sure I'm being levelled, but anyways.

Google software for poker, I'm sure sharkscope will soon pop up, so I don't fell bad for people who are unaware, there just lazy or don't care.

But as I said it's clearly an advantage.

I see what you mean now.

I'm not lazy, and I do care. But I want to play poker for fun, not spend hours using electronic programmes to crunch numbers.

[mondatoo]

It clearly is an advantage, but it's almost impossible to have any interest in poker and do the tinniest bit of research to find out about all the software available, so if you don't know, you don't care.

I can't work out what you mean Mond.

I mean I'm sure I'm being levelled, but anyways.

Google software for poker, I'm sure sharkscope will soon pop up, so I don't fell bad for people who are unaware, there just lazy or don't care.

But as I said it's clearly an advantage.

They care if they get abused because of it, Ray, even if they don't  understand where the info arose from.

It should obv be banned, no doubt, as arbboy says it only benefits the pros and as he said they'd obv play anyways.

I care about not doing my bollocks this week at Cheltenham, I'm still going to punt tho coz it's fun, and I know who has the edge.

[theprawnidentity]

The information being on the website for people to search for is just the tip of iceberg unfortunately.