FOBT's

[Tal]

Moving off in tangents but education is certainly key to stopping kids becoming addicted to these machines. I am all for what Martin Lewis has been trying to do, it just makes so much sense on many levels. 

I'd also say that Arbboy has pretty much nailed it throughout this thread with his take on it.  I wanted to make very similar points but I have been on the couch with a hangover all day.  Not conducive for writing wordy replies. 

Ban whisky imo.

On the Rocks?

[scotty77]

Some people just don't get it.

My brother probably wastes on average 50 quid a week on them, however I know sometimes he's done a few hundred in a day. You would think that with me being essentially a professional gambler, he would listen to my advice.  He doesn't and comes with the same rigged, I have a system etc nonsense.  Just given up trying. My cousin is the exactly the same too.  

My brother is single and has no real responsibilities, and at 23 there is a chance it's just being young and foolish so I hope he grows out of it.

My cousins addiction makes me far angrier as he has a GF, mortgage and a 4 year old and the money he wastes directly affects their future. I just can't understand it.

[arbboy]

Moving off in tangents but education is certainly key to stopping kids becoming addicted to these machines. I am all for what Martin Lewis has been trying to do, it just makes so much sense on many levels. 

I'd also say that Arbboy has pretty much nailed it throughout this thread with his take on it.  I wanted to make very similar points but I have been on the couch with a hangover all day.  Not conducive for writing wordy replies. 

Ban whisky imo.

On the Rocks?

too good.  Redarmi might not get that not being into the dramatics of the wwe

[Kmac84]

Ha!

It wasn't even the hard stuff, I'd been off the booze for Lent. 7 pints of Perroni and two French martinis later I was a wreck!

[tikay]

How exactly did this thread get so seamlessly from gambling addiction to alcohol addiction?

[arbboy]

They go hand in hand for me hence my entrance on the diet thread!  Been an addict of both for 20 years!

[horseplayer]

Martin Lewis come up with anymore free money laying systems of late?

[gouty]

Some people just don't get it.

My brother probably wastes on average 50 quid a week on them, however I know sometimes he's done a few hundred in a day. You would think that with me being essentially a professional gambler, he would listen to my advice.  He doesn't and comes with the same rigged, I have a system etc nonsense.  Just given up trying. My cousin is the exactly the same too.  

My brother is single and has no real responsibilities, and at 23 there is a chance it's just being young and foolish so I hope he grows out of it.

My cousins addiction makes me far angrier as he has a GF, mortgage and a 4 year old and the money he wastes directly affects their future. I just can't understand it.
Nor me. I honestly think we take this -EV concept for granted whereas many people do not. I told him every time he spins a tenner he is actually chucking 30 pence in the bin and he thought I was taking the piss.

Alcohol is perfect in this thread as it enables people who DO understand -EV situations enjoy their work or pastime even more by ignoring common sense and doing it anyway. Only the best of these know to have a stop loss when on the piss is essential.

In fact booze and gambling are the perfect match when you learn that you are gonna lose overall when pissed up and adjust stakes accordingly.

[aaron1867]

If these FBOT's was ever to be banned, would it be the end for your high street bookie? It has to be a very close call for them

I created a similar thread about doing my balls in on them a year or so! Still have a problem with them to be honest & it's weird to understand why I suppose. Perhaps love to see a smaller limit of them in shops though, surely can be decreased from 4?

I think I lost something like £800 in about 45 minutes in one of them the week before I went to Vegas in February. It really did piss me off because until then I was having a good profitable week & looking foward to Vegas obv, the £800 severely affected my Vegas budget! Anyway I lose the money & I go upto the counter to get a dog/horse bet on and the young lady asks for my ID after I had been stood on the machine for a fair period of time? I am like WTF?

Personally love to be barred from using these machines though - Obviously pretty much impossible.

[redarmi]

If these FBOT's was ever to be banned, would it be the end for your high street bookie? It has to be a very close call for them

I created a similar thread about doing my balls in on them a year or so! Still have a problem with them to be honest & it's weird to understand why I suppose. Perhaps love to see a smaller limit of them in shops though, surely can be decreased from 4?

I think I lost something like £800 in about 45 minutes in one of them the week before I went to Vegas in February. It really did piss me off because until then I was having a good profitable week & looking foward to Vegas obv, the £800 severely affected my Vegas budget! Anyway I lose the money & I go upto the counter to get a dog/horse bet on and the young lady asks for my ID after I had been stood on the machine for a fair period of time? I am like WTF?

Personally love to be barred from using these machines though - Obviously pretty much impossible.

Don't believe the hype.  They might close some that have been situated near other shops to get over the 4 machines per shop rule but you aren't going to see shops disappearing anytime soon.

[DungBeetle]

I think it's more about educating people about gambling earlier in life that is key. We all understand -EV situations because we either play poker for a living or it's our favourite pastime. So we come across lots of poor betting decisions every day and decline to take them many many times during a game of poker.

Some people just don't get it. I have told a mate last week who I felt could have problem playing FOBTs "35/1 about a 36/1 shot every 20 seconds does not sound great over an hour, does it"?

He just went on about zero coming in a lot in some shop along the road. They should have classes at school to explain margins and house edge so people understand it's a punt, not a means of income. He actually thinks he can beat the game and does not get the concept I am trying to get across?  Is that delusion or is this a hard aspect to grasp? Another mate punts like fuck on anything he thinks he is at least 50/50 on (buckaroo game in pub or random seat last longers in tourneys) but he would never play any house game or FOBT. So it's not the gambler aspect of the problem gambler it's the fact they think they can beat the game. Is this all rubbish?

I don't think people think they can beat the game.

I'm happy occasionally smashing into the spreads on a snooker match for example, even though I might be several hundred down before the game even starts due to the wide bid offers.  I understand the true transaction is that I am purchasing adrenaline and if I value that adrenaline shot at £300 then I'm happy to trade as it's still a +EV transaction for me, even if not financially.  Fortunately I understand that too much adrenaline will be very expensive.

I think most people who bet with the bookies know they don't have the best of it.

[Cf]

I think it's more about educating people about gambling earlier in life that is key. We all understand -EV situations because we either play poker for a living or it's our favourite pastime. So we come across lots of poor betting decisions every day and decline to take them many many times during a game of poker.

Some people just don't get it. I have told a mate last week who I felt could have problem playing FOBTs "35/1 about a 36/1 shot every 20 seconds does not sound great over an hour, does it"?

He just went on about zero coming in a lot in some shop along the road. They should have classes at school to explain margins and house edge so people understand it's a punt, not a means of income. He actually thinks he can beat the game and does not get the concept I am trying to get across?  Is that delusion or is this a hard aspect to grasp? Another mate punts like fuck on anything he thinks he is at least 50/50 on (buckaroo game in pub or random seat last longers in tourneys) but he would never play any house game or FOBT. So it's not the gambler aspect of the problem gambler it's the fact they think they can beat the game. Is this all rubbish?

I don't think people think they can beat the game.

I'm happy occasionally smashing into the spreads on a snooker match for example, even though I might be several hundred down before the game even starts due to the wide bid offers.  I understand the true transaction is that I am purchasing adrenaline and if I value that adrenaline shot at £300 then I'm happy to trade as it's still a +EV transaction for me, even if not financially.  Fortunately I understand that too much adrenaline will be very expensive.

I think most people who bet with the bookies know they don't have the best of it.

Wrong.

You (and 99% of us on here) obviously understand EV.

The majority of the population do not.

They'll have certain sections of the wheel, devise a system, play on a machine that hasn't paid out in a while, etc. All in the belief that they can somehow beat the game.

[aaron1867]

I don't think people think they can beat the game, I'd say people just want to get lucky. Think most punters know that you can't beat maths in the long run

[Cf]

I don't think people think they can beat the game, I'd say people just want to get lucky. Think most punters know that you can't beat maths in the long run

That's the thing though. Hoping to get lucky and beating the game are essentially the same thing.

Long term maths won't be a consideration for the vast majority. They'll go in hoping to "get lucky" a few times and lose money in the long term without really realizing that it was inevitable. They'll then complain that they were "unlucky" when in actuality it's perfectly standard and carry on betting thinking their luck is due to change.

[DungBeetle]

I don't think people think they can beat the game, I'd say people just want to get lucky. Think most punters know that you can't beat maths in the long run

That's the thing though. Hoping to get lucky and beating the game are essentially the same thing.

Long term maths won't be a consideration for the vast majority. They'll go in hoping to "get lucky" a few times and lose money in the long term without really realizing that it was inevitable. They'll then complain that they were "unlucky" when in actuality it's perfectly standard and carry on betting thinking their luck is due to change.

I don't think hoping to get lucky and beating the game are the same thing.  Beating the game is a long term concept.  Getting lucky is sticking £5 on a number at roulette, hitting it and walking away?  I'm pretty sure most people don't think they have a long term edge on the bookie but they don't care.  They might not process it in such clear terms, but effectively they are saying they are happy to lose in the long term because horse racing is their hobby and they derive value from that.  Of course on any given day they hope for the short term run good, but deep down they must know it is a hopeless quest.

Maybe I am giving people too much credit.