Limp-calling in the sunday mill

[pleno1]

i really think if youre not limping then its a pretty significant leak in current mtt strategy.

example i have qts in the cut off if i open in some spots some regs will 100% 3bet me with k2,k3,k4,k5,k6,k7,q2,q3,q4,q5,q6 and so so many more combos because they can manipulate stack sizes, if i limp theres around 15% chance that they isoraise me with any of those combos.

dont want to go that much detail regarding limping, but similarily there are spots where doing anything but limping is really bad, also from early positions with 15-20bb stacks.

peoples static pre flop bet sizes is the biggest leak of bad regs in 2014.

Where did u get those numbers from? Saying some people will do something 100% of the time is wrong without infinite sample. However if its right - and we know they 3bet us this much with this junk then we can exploit the fk out of it by 4bing tons / peeling pre vs aggro opponents and going mad when we flop decent equity (which isn't a made hand) / stationing down when we flop a pair.

Would be interested to chat on Skype about the spots where doing anything but limping is bad, drop me a message 2moro if u fancy it.

yeh ypu can do this and just have a fuck tonne of variance and have spots that are potentially bad and bust out a lot in tournaments from 10th-25th or just play way lower variance that might be slightly lower ev. i try to play as low variance a spossible in as many spots as possible.

its like shoving a 0.1% jam is +ev but when ive been recalculating ranges i look for 5% edges.

i really think if youre not limping then its a pretty significant leak in current mtt strategy.

example i have qts in the cut off if i open in some spots some regs will 100% 3bet me with k2,k3,k4,k5,k6,k7,q2,q3,q4,q5,q6 and so so many more combos because they can manipulate stack sizes, if i limp theres around 15% chance that they isoraise me with any of those combos.

dont want to go that much detail regarding limping, but similarily there are spots where doing anything but limping is really bad, also from early positions with 15-20bb stacks.

peoples static pre flop bet sizes is the biggest leak of bad regs in 2014.

I can defo buy all of this, affective limp strategies exist for sure. They are just almost always either fundamentally incorrect or poorly applied.

Pads without giving too many secrets away did you ever get anything like this working for 6max play?

yeh i made a few private videos on it that i never released mainly about limping button. again dont wanna go into detail, but one of the highest variance and toughest spots in no limit holdem 100bb stakcs is facing a 3bet sb v btn and he bet, bet, jams the river for pot sized bet and we just basicaly guess most of the time.

limping quickly removes this problem

[PathFinder]

I guess limping any hand in late position is entire villian dependant anyway. I guess it's no different to limping the small blind knowing the BB always 3bets so you limp call your broadway hands. However I think limping in early position is difficult over 20bb but I can see merit limping late position villian dependant

[pleno1]

and btw i dont mean everybody should start limoing 99.9% of people shouldnt.

to win at mtts just play tight and let people spew and understand shove/fold situations.

i just mean vs very tough players in high stakes mtts if youre not limping then youre likely leaking somewhere.

[SuuPRlim]

one of the highest variance and toughest spots in no limit holdem 100bb stakcs is facing a 3bet sb v btn and he bet, bet, jams the river for pot sized bet and we just basicaly guess most of the time.

limping quickly removes this problem

Lets talk on skype about this I wanna pick your brains

[PathFinder]

to win at mtts just play tight and let people spew and understand shove/fold situations.

Pretty much all you need to know about Mtts. In the past people were too tight so an aggro style would do well. These days people are too aggro and just spew too much. Probably a reason why Phil Hellmuth is doing better these days as people just spew into him.  I mean I use to spew like crazy in mtts but since I've reeled it in I've had much more positive results.

[titaniumbean]

ye i dont get that either :/ why im not BITB i guess

Maybe Pads picken is just a whale on a heater!

not quick enough brah xx

[lucky_scrote]

I started limping a lot more around 2-3 months ago. When I say I limp a lot more, I still rarely do it as I virtually never did it before.

I very rarely do it with really deep stacks because IMO there really aren't many good regs around. Most of them auto pilot. In the SM it's full of fishes and it wouldn't even spring to mind, KJs is a pretty good hand imo.

I've been doing it more with 25-30bb stacks when I have a really annoying reg that likes to put me in tough spots by 3b'ing me and I'm OOP with a hand like ATo, A7s and broadway hands. I did actually limp in the million lasst Sunday come to think about it, it was the first level so 200bb deep and I had 99 otb with the BB sat out. Was a tight reg in the SB and just figured he's going to flick in 25 chips from the SB with almost everything but play extremely tight to just a MR. Obviously I'm not building the pot very well, but I felt like it was the right thing to do at the time.

[wazz]

to win at mtts just play tight and let people spew and understand shove/fold situations.

I mean this in the nicest possible way but these could only be the words of someone running very hot.

[pleno1]

ask any real mtt grinder 3 years ago who they thought were the best and everybody would say xxx, yyy, zzz (dont wanna call them out) because they are nice guys. But they were crazy, aggressive, always 3betting etc.

Ask most guys now and people aspire to be people like robinho and other tight guys.

very happy for the running hot stuff to come around, but from looking at literally 600 full hhs this year (prob more than anybody else) ive studied all styles very seriously.

[pleno1]

and the biggest mistake you will see any fish, reg, bad reg, good reg, best reg, worst reg, cash game player etc make will be stacking off too light/playing too aggressive/ playing too fps/ trying too many things. Almost none of their leaks is playing too tight.

[wazz]

and the biggest mistake you will see any fish, reg, bad reg, good reg, best reg, worst reg, cash game player etc make will be stacking off too light/playing too aggressive/ playing too fps/ trying too many things. Almost none of their leaks is playing too tight.

I've got a relatively small sample size but I've tried playing tight and I end up chipping down heavily. My strategy is obviously never as simplistic as that - I open up my game according to conditions - and I do certainly spew sometimes, but the only times I've ever had good results - Int Freeroll, EPT San Remo, party highroller, 2nd in party sunday major a couple of years back (all within six weeks of each other) - had nothing to do with playing tight or playing loose, I played well and ran hot at the right times. Since then I might be down $80k in MTTs overall. 'Just' playing tight, never getting it in light, rarely bluffing, not trying anything new, appears to be a losing strategy for me. Again, I understand that variance is high and especially so in a lot of the MTTs I've played being massive fields, and it's certainly easy to have run awful over this period and have that account for my losses, but just to say 'keep it simple, value-bet hard, don't spew' etc isn't enough.

[wazz]

FWIW I knew before I posted the hand that this should be a raise pre at this stack depth - I've been experimenting with limping some of the time and this isn't the right spot to do it in. I was more interested in whether I should have played the hand differently postflop at all.