So, Tomsom got me learning 18man sngs...

[Rexas]

This happened.

PokerStars Hand #118267597138: Tournament #931794585, $3.16+$0.34 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2014/07/03 1:20:58 WET [2014/07/02 20:20:58 ET]
Table '931794585 2' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 1Rexas1 (6889 in chips)
Seat 3: Elibol (1898 in chips)
Seat 9: mocho.6666 (18213 in chips)
1Rexas1: posts the ante 25
Elibol: posts the ante 25
mocho.6666: posts the ante 25
Elibol: posts small blind 200
mocho.6666: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 1Rexas1 [ ]
1Rexas1: raises 400 to 800
Elibol: folds
mocho.6666: raises 17388 to 18188 and is all-in
1Rexas1: calls 6064 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (11324) returned to mocho.6666
*** FLOP *** [ ]
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ]

*** SHOW DOWN *** mocho.6666: shows [ Ah] (a pair of Eights) 1Rexas1: shows [ ] (two pair, Queens and Eights) 1Rexas1 collected 14003 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 14003 | Rake 0 Board [ ] Seat 1: 1Rexas1 (button) showed [ ] and won (14003) with two pair, Queens and Eights Seat 3: Elibol (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 9: mocho.6666 (big blind) showed [ Ah] and lost with a pair of Eights http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/9708031_498A2300D8 I just had this hand pointed out as a potential problem, and on closer inspection, this is probably an icm disaster. The player im up against didn't seem to know what ICM was, or at least he was calling jams far too wide and generally having a good time. Purely according to shove fold, assuming perfect play, I should be jamming 12.7%, 77+ A8s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs. Given a widened range, which is probably a little too wide, for the villain, that drops to 4.7%, AQ+ and 10s+. Should I be jamming pre? Should I be raise folding? Should I be raise calling? How close is it? These are the questions I ask of the residents of the PHA

[lucky_scrote]

This happened.

PokerStars Hand #118267597138: Tournament #931794585, $3.16+$0.34 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2014/07/03 1:20:58 WET [2014/07/02 20:20:58 ET]
Table '931794585 2' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 1Rexas1 (6889 in chips)
Seat 3: Elibol (1898 in chips)
Seat 9: mocho.6666 (18213 in chips)
1Rexas1: posts the ante 25
Elibol: posts the ante 25
mocho.6666: posts the ante 25
Elibol: posts small blind 200
mocho.6666: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 1Rexas1 [ ]
1Rexas1: raises 400 to 800
Elibol: folds
mocho.6666: raises 17388 to 18188 and is all-in
1Rexas1: calls 6064 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (11324) returned to mocho.6666
*** FLOP *** [ ]
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ]

*** SHOW DOWN *** mocho.6666: shows [ Ah] (a pair of Eights) 1Rexas1: shows [ ] (two pair, Queens and Eights) 1Rexas1 collected 14003 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 14003 | Rake 0 Board [ ] Seat 1: 1Rexas1 (button) showed [ ] and won (14003) with two pair, Queens and Eights Seat 3: Elibol (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 9: mocho.6666 (big blind) showed [ Ah] and lost with a pair of Eights http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/9708031_498A2300D8 I just had this hand pointed out as a potential problem, and on closer inspection, this is probably an icm disaster. The player im up against didn't seem to know what ICM was, or at least he was calling jams far too wide and generally having a good time. Purely according to shove fold, assuming perfect play, I should be jamming 12.7%, 77+ A8s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs. Given a widened range, which is probably a little too wide, for the villain, that drops to 4.7%, AQ+ and 10s+. Should I be jamming pre? Should I be raise folding? Should I be raise calling? How close is it? These are the questions I ask of the residents of the PHA

I think you've made a bit of an error here tbh. I definitely just jam this pre as you are supposed to raise fold probably, or at least you're supposed to call it off once you've opened which makes it really bad for ICM. I probably still min raise my nutted hands, I dunno where I draw the line probably QQ+. If you've raise folded from this spot before then a good player will happily go with ATC and be correct.

[theprawnidentity]

Pretty sure were meant to jam here too.  We need to avoid busting before the short stack at all costs.  If the bb is shoving anywhere near to ATC then we will bust here something like 35% of the time which is an absolute disaster given the flat payout structure.  We should 100% be jamming our full range here which according to nash would be 77+ A8s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs.

Ive actually talked about these spots in detail and when you play tons of these it will be very important to make sure that you have balanced range in these spots if you're planning to r/c your premiums.  I think a reasonable strategy in this spot would be to:

Jam: 77-JJ A8s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs.
Raise Call: AA-QQ
Raise Fold: KJo, K9s

[lucky_scrote]

Pretty sure were meant to jam here too.  We need to avoid busting before the short stack at all costs.  If the bb is shoving anywhere near to ATC then we will bust here something like 35% of the time which is an absolute disaster given the flat payout structure.  We should 100% be jamming our full range here which according to nash would be 77+ A8s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs.

Ive actually talked about these spots in detail and when you play tons of these it will be very important to make sure that you have balanced range in these spots if you're planning to r/c your premiums.  I think a reasonable strategy in this spot would be to:

Jam: 77-JJ A8s+ A5s-A3s ATo+ KTs+ KQo QTs+ JTs.
Raise Call: AA-QQ
Raise Fold: KJo, K9s

I think if you are one of the guys who play 18 mans for SNE then you should be adopting this strategy since you play with the same people so often. So unless you play a shed load of these 18 mans at $30+ then I wouldn't even bother to adopt this strategy of balancing.

[theprawnidentity]

So unless you play a shed load of these 18 mans at $30+ then I wouldn't even bother to adopt this strategy of balancing.

I was just editing my OP to include this at the bottom.  Agree with this, but I think it's a good habit to get into if you want to move up the stakes and tangle with the bros.

[MC]

Yeah, just jam.