"Bonuses" from Live Events, & Stakers entitlements.

[tikay]

More & more there are various bonuses attached to winning, or running deep, in various events, most especially "Live", & particularly @ DTD.

DTD now very often include 50 seats or whatever to a specific, later event, in their Tournaments. It actually forms part of the Guaranteed Prize Pool. Not everyone agress with that, but that's a different debate completely.

As an example, the 6-Max UKPC "Mini" next week gives 50 "6-Max UKPC MAIN EVENT" seats, each worth £1,000, to the top 50 I believe.

So, if someone buys action in a player in that Mini, should they auto-get the "follow-on" action in the Main at no further cost?

The question is NOT specific to that Event, I've just used it as an example.

Personally, I have no strong feeling either way, though I lean to the view that those who buy the action should auto get the follow-through, UNLESS specified in advance. If specified in advance ("no"), as it should be, there is no argument or debate, of course.

But if it is not specified, the right & fair answer is.......?

[arbboy]

Course they should.  50 seats gtd takes out 33% of the prize pool.  It's not a bonus or add on its 33% of your buy in effectively which you have paid cash to enter.  If someone has a stake in you and you don't give them the same % in the seat then you are effectively selling at a huge mark up without them realising.

I don't really like the 50 seats mtts as i feel it turns them into a giant double on nothing on day 2 as coming 50th is the key part of the event.  I just adjust my game to play them optimally in that manner.  I understand why Rob does them though and get the whole bigger picture for the recs winning a seat rather than cash and the missus can't spend the cash they win which keeps it in the club/economy moving around.

[AndrewT]

With the DTD thing it's not a bonus is it, it's part of the normal prize pool, so any % should definitely apply to it.

If it is genuinely a bonus thing (added on top of the normal prize pool) then it would seem churlish for the stakee not to offer the follow % but meh.

[BorntoBubble]

It should be made clear in OP in my opinion.

Leader board points etc - if all the comps on the package count towards the leader board and the player plays no other comps then I would include any benefits that may arise from the leader board in the package. If say 1 event from the package counted towards a 10 event leader board then i would state that "no prizes from the leader board will count in this package" although it is very likely that i would give a %% of the leader board prizes to my backers at my own discretion.

Any seats that are won in a comp say "final table get a £1000 seat" then this should be included in my opinion. If it is not included then a cash alternative should be included as that £1000 is part of the prize.

Any things like this IMO should be made clear before a tournament is played. Communication is always the best way forward in the scenarios so messy situations dont arise.

It can be difficult if for example the winner gets a $13000 main event package where $3000 of that is hotels, travel and accommodation. If this is the case i would offer the backers a cash equivalent to their %% of the $3000 or discuss with them what they thought was best.

[tikay]

It should be made clear in OP in my opinion.

Leader board points etc - if all the comps on the package count towards the leader board and the player plays no other comps then I would include any benefits that may arise from the leader board in the package. If say 1 event from the package counted towards a 10 event leader board then i would state that "no prizes from the leader board will count in this package" although it is very likely that i would give a %% of the leader board prizes to my backers at my own discretion.

Any seats that are won in a comp say "final table get a £1000 seat" then this should be included in my opinion. If it is not included then a cash alternative should be included as that £1000 is part of the prize.

Any things like this IMO should be made clear before a tournament is played. Communication is always the best way forward in the scenarios so messy situations dont arise.

It can be difficult if for example the winner gets a $13000 main event package where $3000 of that is hotels, travel and accommodation. If this is the case i would offer the backers a cash equivalent to their %% of the $3000 or discuss with them what they thought was best.

Agree with most of that.

One of the problems is that many of us do serial staking of friends. "I'm playing next week, want your usual %?" & we just say yay or nay, so it can potentially get a bit awkward. Not if it is with good friends, of course, but it can arise. 

 

[bergeroo]

If it is taken out of the prizepool then the action should ALWAYS go on as standard. If it is a leaderboard or a freeroll then that is debatable. In an ideal world people would specify in advance, but this doesn't always happen. I guess if I was a backer I wouldn't mind something in compensation if someone I had a piece of had extra bonuses, but I don't think I would feel entitled to it.

BTW I think something like what DTD is doing with WPT for a bigger tournament the next week is a really good idea.

I don't like WPT making a 15k Grand Final seat part of the prizepool which takes place in Vegas and might be nine months away is a fair or good thing. A Serbian guy won the WPT in Austria last year and he couldn't get a visa to go and play the Grand Final at Bellagio. I don't know what happened in the end but I know he was trying to get WPT to help him out and they were really rigid about it

[DMorgan]

Yeah %ages should definitely roll over as its part of the prize pool.

Could also go down the route of specifying that the stakee reserves the right to buy back action in the larger event at x markup which should be lower than the markup on the original tournament since the horse will probably have a smaller ROI in the bigger event.

[Boba Fett]

Should roll on for sure, should also be fine for the player to pay out to the staker for their % of the value of the seat if they dont want to carry action over

[Junior Senior]

If bonus is included in the prize payout of the tournament you originally staked them in then it should roll over.
These things are always best clarified at the time of striking the deal to avoid issues.

[booder]

Course they should.  50 seats gtd takes out 33% of the prize pool.  It's not a bonus or add on its 33% of your buy in effectively which you have paid cash to enter.  If someone has a stake in you and you don't give them the same % in the seat then you are effectively selling at a huge mark up without them realising.

This for me.

[pvas2]

IMO anything that will cause the staked player to play in an abnormal way which increases their own EV while decreasing the backers' should be in some way included or referred to at the least. The backers need to know this can happen and IMO should have the option of getting a refund if they realise but that could be very tricky. Standard if it comes from the prizepool it should be split with the backers. If a package says nothing outside of prize money goes to the backers then the backers should work out the adjusted mark up themselves or just avoid.

[pokerplayingfarmer]

Definitely get the follow on action too, I've been staked in these events and clarified before the comps with backer that any seats won would have the same % split.  No brainer imo as the seats form part of prizepool.

[theprawnidentity]

I can only really repeat what has been said before.  If it's part of the prizepool, then yes, if it's some kind of freeroll or bonus, then no (unless agreed beforehand). 

An issue I have seen arise involves players taking multiple bullets after agreeing to swap.  The guy who takes 3 bullets agrees to swap a %age with someone who only takes one.  Mr 3 bullets then goes on to cash the event for £amount and the guy who only took one expects his %.