Hand that bothered me from a couple of months ago

[Honeybadger]

Don't mind jamming, don't mind 3betting to anywhere between 7k and 10k. Jamming gonna be lower variance, not jamming likely to be higher EV. But probably not that much between the two, so just do whatever you want to do IMO.

If you 3bet to 7.5k (or whatever) and everyone calls lol... well you're probably gonna get knocked out of the tournament on this hand. But no problem - the times you don't bust you are going to have a HUGE stack!!

[muckthenuts]

A jam seems really unlikely to be called given how weak everybody's ranges should be here, which i think means we're essentially wasting it. Don't get given KK that often! Would prefer to give them a chance to peel, and maybe suicide rebluff us lol.

I'd probably jam a hand like AJ here a lot.

[baldock92]

Raise to about 9k

[SuuPRlim]

Jam? No-one got any balls anymore?

Raise to 9500 and fade those sets.

If someone wants to call 9500 with KQ or 66 and outflop you then gl to them imo.

[rfgqqabc]

Jam? No-one got any balls anymore?

Raise to 9500 and fade those sets.

If someone wants to call 9500 with KQ or 66 and outflop you then gl to them imo.

<3

Also if you want to jam 50 bigs pre with this action then just don't bother regging. Its really really bad. At least give people the chance to make mistakes. Ace high flops should be the really easy to play and the least scary boards.

[arbboy]

Jam? No-one got any balls anymore?

Raise to 9500 and fade those sets.

If someone wants to call 9500 with KQ or 66 and outflop you then gl to them imo.

<3

Also if you want to jam 50 bigs pre with this action then just don't bother regging. Its really really bad. At least give people the chance to make mistakes. Ace high flops should be the really easy to play and the least scary boards.

Agreed but there are 24 bigs in the middle here is it really that bad to take the lower variance route here by shoving and being happy to add 50% to your stack if you don't see a flop? (still with potential to get looked up by worse a lot of the time) In an live £200 event like this (with multiple day 1s in 25/25s - this is after the re entry period for this day 1 as they stop after level 3 i think) surely you make your hand look more like ak/aq/aj/jj/1010/99 by shoving in this live low/mid stakes environment than you would by committing a third of your stack to the hand by raising and not shoving - ie the last guy or two to act thinks along the lines of 'feck me i am getting close to 2/1 to call here (with his medium pair he is set mining with and gives you a spin for 'value' knowing he can re enter the 2nd/3rd day 1 later in the day)  What happens if the utg peels and so do all/most of the other customers?  Are you getting your stack in on the flop with any non ace flop?  

As i said earlier something very similar to this happened to me and i am interested in people's thought's as well.  

[youthnkzR]

I would 100% not jam.

7500 ish.

[pleno1]

Jam? No-one got any balls anymore?

Raise to 9500 and fade those sets.

If someone wants to call 9500 with KQ or 66 and outflop you then gl to them imo.

<3

Also if you want to jam 50 bigs pre with this action then just don't bother regging. Its really really bad. At least give people the chance to make mistakes. Ace high flops should be the really easy to play and the least scary boards.

yeh agree with this. really really surprised about the jam camp here.

[pleno1]

not sure why this is seen to be higher variance anyway, people will likely stack off on flops with overpairs (that will call you anyway) or top pair i.e AQ on Q23 or something, if anything AQ won't see 5 cards anyway.

[arbboy]

ok let's say the guy has 5x'd it pre instead of the 3.75x he has raised(this happens in £200 live donkfests) and got 5 callers and there are 38 bigs in the middle and you are playing 50 bigs what are you doing now?

[rfgqqabc]

Jam? No-one got any balls anymore?

Raise to 9500 and fade those sets.

If someone wants to call 9500 with KQ or 66 and outflop you then gl to them imo.

<3

Also if you want to jam 50 bigs pre with this action then just don't bother regging. Its really really bad. At least give people the chance to make mistakes. Ace high flops should be the really easy to play and the least scary boards.

Agreed but there are 24 bigs in the middle here is it really that bad to take the lower variance route here by shoving and being happy to add 50% to your stack if you don't see a flop? (still with potential to get looked up by worse a lot of the time) In an live £200 event like this (with multiple day 1s in 25/25s - this is after the re entry period for this day 1 as they stop after level 3 i think) surely you make your hand look more like ak/aq/aj/jj/1010/99 by shoving in this live low/mid stakes environment than you would by committing a third of your stack to the hand by raising and not shoving - ie the last guy or two to act thinks along the lines of 'feck me i am getting close to 2/1 to call here (with his medium pair he is set mining with and gives you a spin for 'value')  What happens if the utg peels and so do all/most of the other customers?  Are you getting your stack in on the flop with any non ace flop?  

As i said earlier something very similar to this happened to me and i am interested in people's thought's as well.  

Absolutely, the stack to pot ratio will be approximately one so I'm not worried too much. I really doubt the more than 2 players ever call when they will be putting roughly 1/3rd of their stack in too. I'm not scared of busting, I play to make money. If the last guy wants to setmine I'd even give him a discount. If everyone called I'd be reasonably happy too.

Shoving over the 5.5x is reasonable but I'd be more inclined to make it 20x and see what happens. I'd probably go broke on ace high boards headsup then but shit happens.

my don't bother regging comment is a bit harsh despite being aimed at no one in particular but I stand by the general sentiment.

[Tal]

Jam? No-one got any balls anymore?

Raise to 9500 and fade those sets.

If someone wants to call 9500 with KQ or 66 and outflop you then gl to them imo.

<3

Also if you want to jam 50 bigs pre with this action then just don't bother regging. Its really really bad. At least give people the chance to make mistakes. Ace high flops should be the really easy to play and the least scary boards.

Agreed but there are 24 bigs in the middle here is it really that bad to take the lower variance route here by shoving and being happy to add 50% to your stack if you don't see a flop? (still with potential to get looked up by worse a lot of the time) In an live £200 event like this (with multiple day 1s in 25/25s - this is after the re entry period for this day 1 as they stop after level 3 i think) surely you make your hand look more like ak/aq/aj/jj/1010/99 by shoving in this live low/mid stakes environment than you would by committing a third of your stack to the hand by raising and not shoving - ie the last guy or two to act thinks along the lines of 'feck me i am getting close to 2/1 to call here (with his medium pair he is set mining with and gives you a spin for 'value' knowing he can re enter the 2nd/3rd day 1 later in the day)  What happens if the utg peels and so do all/most of the other customers?  Are you getting your stack in on the flop with any non ace flop?  

As i said earlier something very similar to this happened to me and i am interested in people's thought's as well.  

If this is "the hand" you're on about from the comp the other week, that was in the very late stages of a (1k?) comp. This is the early stages of a local £200 deepstack. The fact your stack size was similar in relative terms to OP's here doesn't make it comparable.

[cambridgealex]

I don't think jamming is acceptable in any buyin tournament!

[Honeybadger]

Its really really bad. At least give people the chance to make mistakes.

I don't think jamming is acceptable in any buyin tournament!

The thing is, people will still make 'mistakes' against a jam too. Not wanting to dredge it up again... but I refer you to the infamous arbboy KK vs AQ hand.

Given stack sizes/SPR on flop etc, opponents will very likely not be continuing vs an 8k-10k squeeze here anyway. But who knows.... someone might call an overbet jam, because 'noone would ever jam with AA or KK'. You are probably getting all folds whatever sizing you choose, and we are just guessing whether you are likely to get more action with a jam or with a normal sized 3bet. So IMO a jam is likely to be almost as +EV as any other sizing. I don't think it really matters what sizing you use, just do whatever you want.

I'd personally always make it 7.5k or whatever to play. But I certainly would not say that jamming is "really really bad" or "unacceptable". It is non-standard to jam, that's all.

I called a 63bb 3bet squeeze in a tourney the other day with AKs. He had KK. Well played him IMO. Tricked me innit.

[Honeybadger]

Also, IMO the worst amount to make it is 9k-10k (sorry Dave, Alex, baldock etc). If you wanna 3bet rather than jam then way better to go somewhere around the 7k mark. Gives the illusion of someone having fold equity vs you, you CAN be 3bet/folding with that sizing etc, and makes it possible (albeit unlikely) that you will get a caller (or five lol!).

All just my opinion of course. And I am not strongly attached to that opinion because I still don't think it matters too much what sizing you use here.