Another Ruling Debate

[Vinodh]

Here we go again!
DTD- GPS main event satellite. Rebuy /add on period over.
Blinds 800/1600. 3 early postions limps,HJ raises to 6500, I am OTB reraised to 16k. SB,BB,first two limpers fold, 3rd limper shoves for 31k.
I am cotemplating a call for about minute and half. I dont say anything, put the calling chips and turns over my cards. Meanwhile, the shover was having his dinner, didnt see my action ( he thought I had folded and showed my cards) and mucked his cards straight away. What should be the ruling?

[redsimon]

Loses his chips if his cards can't be easily retrieved?

Seem to remember a player once shoved allin from seat 1 at DTD a few years ago in the Deepstack and dealer mucked his unprotected cards and his chips still went in?

[Vinodh]

Cards were easily retrievable

[Doobs]

Cards were easily retrievable

Cards speak then?  Why would it be anything other than this.  We have reached the river, no other action is possible, both players 2 cards are obvious.   

Why didn't you say anything?  Seems easy enough to say call as you put the chips in.

[Marky147]

I'd go with, cards are retrieved and hand plays out normally.

[Tal]

Cards were easily retrievable

Cards speak then?  Why would it be anything other than this.  We have reached the river, no other action is possible, both players 2 cards are obvious.   

Why didn't you say anything?  Seems easy enough to say call as you put the chips in.

All of this.

If you saw the guy wasn't concentrating, your deliberate choice not to say anything could be misinterpreted.

[KarmaDope]

If cards are retrievable then they speak. You've called the all in.

[Rexas]

@ redsimon, we haven't reached a river, this is preflop.

Personally, I think the correct "technical" ruling here is probably that once the cards are in the muck, the hand is dead. You can't reach into the muck and retrieve your cards once you've folded them in any other scenario, once they're in there they're dead. However, DTD does seem to emphasize making rulings in the interest of the fairness of the game, which is definitely a good thing in my opinion. In this case, it was clear what the player wanted to do, and it was clear he had made an honest mistake, and the mistake was easily rectifiable. Fwiw, I would allow the all in player to retrieve his cards and give him a pretty stern warning about paying attention to hands he's heavily involved in.

[redsimon]

@ redsimon, we haven't reached a river, this is preflop.

Personally, I think the correct "technical" ruling here is probably that once the cards are in the muck, the hand is dead. You can't reach into the muck and retrieve your cards once you've folded them in any other scenario, once they're in there they're dead. However, DTD does seem to emphasize making rulings in the interest of the fairness of the game, which is definitely a good thing in my opinion. In this case, it was clear what the player wanted to do, and it was clear he had made an honest mistake, and the mistake was easily rectifiable. Fwiw, I would allow the all in player to retrieve his cards and give him a pretty stern warning about paying attention to hands he's heavily involved in.

Never said anything about a river mate?

[Doobs]

@ redsimon, we haven't reached a river, this is preflop.

Personally, I think the correct "technical" ruling here is probably that once the cards are in the muck, the hand is dead. You can't reach into the muck and retrieve your cards once you've folded them in any other scenario, once they're in there they're dead. However, DTD does seem to emphasize making rulings in the interest of the fairness of the game, which is definitely a good thing in my opinion. In this case, it was clear what the player wanted to do, and it was clear he had made an honest mistake, and the mistake was easily rectifiable. Fwiw, I would allow the all in player to retrieve his cards and give him a pretty stern warning about paying attention to hands he's heavily involved in.

Never said anything about a river mate?

My fault I think, misread of the hand. 

[Rexas]

@ redsimon, we haven't reached a river, this is preflop.

Personally, I think the correct "technical" ruling here is probably that once the cards are in the muck, the hand is dead. You can't reach into the muck and retrieve your cards once you've folded them in any other scenario, once they're in there they're dead. However, DTD does seem to emphasize making rulings in the interest of the fairness of the game, which is definitely a good thing in my opinion. In this case, it was clear what the player wanted to do, and it was clear he had made an honest mistake, and the mistake was easily rectifiable. Fwiw, I would allow the all in player to retrieve his cards and give him a pretty stern warning about paying attention to hands he's heavily involved in.

Never said anything about a river mate?

Sorry pal, meant to be for Doobs! Misread who wrote the comment

[verndog158]

If the cards were easily retrievable, as suggested, it probably means they weren't in the muck. If so then I agree with rexarse and co, that common sense means they are retrieved and hand played out

[doubleup]

Does OP really need to think for 1.5 mins when hes getting about 4-1 pre-flop? (even if it is a satellite)

[david3103]

Does OP really need to think for 1.5 mins when hes getting about 4-1 pre-flop? (even if it is a satellite)

it's a satellite, odds mean less than survival

[doubleup]

Does OP really need to think for 1.5 mins when hes getting about 4-1 pre-flop? (even if it is a satellite)

it's a satellite, odds mean less than survival

That's why I said the bold bit