Ched Evans

[bobby1]

I wouldn't employ him. There are no laws to stop him being employed, but I wouldn't employ him to clean the toilets where I work, never mind earn thousands a week to kick a ball around - I'd rather someone else got that money and the opportunity be given to someone else. Role model or not, being a professional footballer is a privileged position. He's abused that privilege. Lots of others have as well, and they're still employed and enjoy the trappings of being a professional footballer. I wouldn't employ them either.

I understand that too Kin, a part that makes me feel uneasy with him being taken back is that his previous transfer fee and possible future value might have a bearing on the decision.

[arbboy]

How much would he have been earning prior to his trip to jail?  What would his market rate be now?

[DropTheHammer]

Excellent piece by fleetstreetfox in the Mirror today.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cheer-ched-evans-cant-say-4453578

Wow, that ridiculous/sensationalist/holier-than-though article made me roll my eyes. And wtf about chucking in the tax avoiders, as if to stir everyone up to get them onside?

So he's had kids with three different partners. Does anyone have evidence of him never seeing them, or not paying child maintenance? People on benefits having one family with 6 kids is worse IMO, at least he can support them financially.


How many of us have woken up not remembering how we got home?
- Just because she didn't remember consent how was she convinced she didn't give it when drunk? Christ the stupid things I've done/agreed to when drunk.
How many of us have drunk heavily at the end of a night out and gone to sleep before the full effects have kicked in?
- I'm sure many women have lost control of their bladders after having fallen asleep
How many times have men chatted up women who agreed to come home with us "but nothing's going to happen!" (more often than not it does when they say that), then everything happens (and they are not hammered or coy when they come back).

[bobby1]

How much would he have been earning prior to his trip to jail?  What would his market rate be now?

Think we paid 3 million for him and think it was 20k a week. His value now surely very little isn't it but he was a Welsh international firing goals in before he went down and is 25 years old so could still have a transfer value in the future.

[The Camel]

Excellent piece by fleetstreetfox in the Mirror today.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cheer-ched-evans-cant-say-4453578

Wow, that ridiculous/sensationalist/holier-than-though article made me roll my eyes. And wtf about chucking in the tax avoiders, as if to stir everyone up to get them onside?

So he's had kids with three different partners. Does anyone have evidence of him never seeing them, or not paying child maintenance? People on benefits having one family with 6 kids is worse IMO, at least he can support them financially.


How many of us have woken up not remembering how we got home?
- Just because she didn't remember consent how was she convinced she didn't give it when drunk? Christ the stupid things I've done/agreed to when drunk.
How many of us have drunk heavily at the end of a night out and gone to sleep before the full effects have kicked in?
- I'm sure many women have lost control of their bladders after having fallen asleep
How many times have men chatted up women who agreed to come home with us "but nothing's going to happen!" (more often than not it does when they say that), then everything happens (and they are not hammered or coy when they come back).

What on earth do you mean by the bolded bit?

[Ironside]

Excellent piece by fleetstreetfox in the Mirror today.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cheer-ched-evans-cant-say-4453578

Wow, that ridiculous/sensationalist/holier-than-though article made me roll my eyes. And wtf about chucking in the tax avoiders, as if to stir everyone up to get them onside?

So he's had kids with three different partners. Does anyone have evidence of him never seeing them, or not paying child maintenance? People on benefits having one family with 6 kids is worse IMO, at least he can support them financially.


How many of us have woken up not remembering how we got home?
- Just because she didn't remember consent how was she convinced she didn't give it when drunk? Christ the stupid things I've done/agreed to when drunk.
How many of us have drunk heavily at the end of a night out and gone to sleep before the full effects have kicked in?
- I'm sure many women have lost control of their bladders after having fallen asleep
How many times have men chatted up women who agreed to come home with us "but nothing's going to happen!" (more often than not it does when they say that), then everything happens (and they are not hammered or coy when they come back).

she didnt go back with him though

[DropTheHammer]

Excellent piece by fleetstreetfox in the Mirror today.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cheer-ched-evans-cant-say-4453578

Wow, that ridiculous/sensationalist/holier-than-though article made me roll my eyes. And wtf about chucking in the tax avoiders, as if to stir everyone up to get them onside?

So he's had kids with three different partners. Does anyone have evidence of him never seeing them, or not paying child maintenance? People on benefits having one family with 6 kids is worse IMO, at least he can support them financially.


How many of us have woken up not remembering how we got home?
- Just because she didn't remember consent how was she convinced she didn't give it when drunk? Christ the stupid things I've done/agreed to when drunk.
How many of us have drunk heavily at the end of a night out and gone to sleep before the full effects have kicked in?
- I'm sure many women have lost control of their bladders after having fallen asleep
How many times have men chatted up women who agreed to come home with us "but nothing's going to happen!" (more often than not it does when they say that), then everything happens (and they are not hammered or coy when they come back).

What on earth do you mean by the bolded bit?

I'm presuming the prosecution mentioned/used the fact that she woke up in her own (?) urine to argue that she was so drunk that she wet herself/couldn't conscent...but the loss of bladder control could have happened due to alcohol kicking in after going to sleep.

I haven't read all the facts of the case but I would be surprised whoever it was would mention to the staff member to keep an eye on the girl if he thought he had taken advantage TBH. Wouldn't he just scurry off and not mention anything?

[DropTheHammer]

This is taken from the Ched Evans supporters' website and I haven't been able to verify it elsewhere. It was after Ched got another key to the room and the porter knew the 3 of them were in there:

"the night porter had only minutes earlier been listening at the door of Room 14 because he was concerned that the occupancy of Room 14 was more than the hotel rules allowed. The night porter stated in Court that he had heard the sounds of people having sex – when pushed on this he said that he had heard both female and male voices “squealing, panting and groaning”. He also said that he heard a male voice ask for oral sex in a “playful” manner."

From watching the video of the girl walking back out of the hotel unassisted and then back in again in big wedges "borrowed from a friend" (again from the supporters website) she didn't seem in too bad a state.

[Doobs]

This is taken from the Ched Evans supporters' website and I haven't been able to verify it elsewhere. It was after Ched got another key to the room and the porter knew the 3 of them were in there:

"the night porter had only minutes earlier been listening at the door of Room 14 because he was concerned that the occupancy of Room 14 was more than the hotel rules allowed. The night porter stated in Court that he had heard the sounds of people having sex – when pushed on this he said that he had heard both female and male voices “squealing, panting and groaning”. He also said that he heard a male voice ask for oral sex in a “playful” manner."

From watching the video of the girl walking back out of the hotel unassisted and then back in again in big wedges "borrowed from a friend" (again from the supporters website) she didn't seem in too bad a state.

Alternatively you could look at an independent website to see details of the trial.  You would discover that she was so "drunk" she fell over in a kebab shop, or another CCTV showed her walking in to a wall, or the bit where the night porter told the trial she was extremely drunk or that her eyes were glazed and she looked through him when he spoke to her. She said in court she thought her drink may have been spiked. Nah best just take the word of his supporters.

A jury found him guilty, he had two appeals refused.

I guess you could argue you didn't think this was all rape, or the evidence wasn't strong enough, but hard to argue he isn't pretty damn scummy to me.  He isn't coming across as showing a lot of contrition right now.  If you had asked me yesterday if he should play I would have said yes.  I hope he comes across a bit better in his statements than the stuff I have read from his supporters as this isn't endearing him to me.

Reported details from the time are here.
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Clayton-McDonald-rape-trial-Accuser-extremely/story-15813402-detail/story.html

Details of appeal here

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

[TightEnd]

Charlie Webster (who i think is brilliant) explains why she'll resign as a patron of SUFC if they re-sign Ched Evans

http://bbc.in/1bjJrEp

rights and wrongs of case and verdict aside, its going to be a very very tough sell to any club's female fans

[DropTheHammer]

Thanks for that extra evidence Doobs, some of it was on the supporters website and they also mention the fact that she drunk much more than she normally would. I mentioned where I got that info from to indicate that I recognize it could be biased, a lot of their side I felt was written in a biased manner.

I am not saying I think he's innocent, or vice versa. And I do feel that in a jury system, a lot more guilty people get off, so the evidence must have been strong.

[ripple11]

Thanks for that extra evidence Doobs, some of it was on the supporters website and they also mention the fact that she drunk much more than she normally would. I mentioned where I got that info from to indicate that I recognize it could be biased, a lot of their side I felt was written in a biased manner.

I am not saying I think he's innocent, or vice versa. And I do feel that in a jury system, a lot more guilty people get off, so the evidence must have been strong.

Interestingly so much of that evidence also applies to his friend who was found not guilty. Evans had sexual contact with her about 20 mins after his friend. Both said she consented (obviously) and she says she remembers nothing. It's a big call from the jury to give two different verdicts.

[bobby1]

Thanks for that extra evidence Doobs, some of it was on the supporters website and they also mention the fact that she drunk much more than she normally would. I mentioned where I got that info from to indicate that I recognize it could be biased, a lot of their side I felt was written in a biased manner.

I am not saying I think he's innocent, or vice versa. And I do feel that in a jury system, a lot more guilty people get off, so the evidence must have been strong.

Interestingly so much of that evidence also applies to his friend who was found not guilty. Evans had sexual contact with her about 20 mins after his friend. Both said she consented (obviously) and she says she remembers nothing. It's a big call from the jury to give two different verdicts.

I'm not keen on quoting a lot from the Evans site but as these appeared in the police interviews. She asked Evans to perform a sex act on her and the police asked her what the phrase she used meant to confirm they were talking about the same thing. During sex she instigated positional changes and neither of the males left any DNA in the room. This is just tricky to write but does a man that is raping someone perform that action and does the female ever request that in a rape situation and does someone raping a girl stop before reaching the end?

I don't really know the answers for sure but it doesn't seem likely to me that either of those things happen. @Doobs, I don't think the girl had been drinking with the players so the spiking of her drink isn't something that the players were involved in if it did happen. The first meeting was in the kebab shop I think where she fell over and both players left the shop together before she approached the other guy on the street.

[Doobs]

Thanks for that extra evidence Doobs, some of it was on the supporters website and they also mention the fact that she drunk much more than she normally would. I mentioned where I got that info from to indicate that I recognize it could be biased, a lot of their side I felt was written in a biased manner.

I am not saying I think he's innocent, or vice versa. And I do feel that in a jury system, a lot more guilty people get off, so the evidence must have been strong.

Interestingly so much of that evidence also applies to his friend who was found not guilty. Evans had sexual contact with her about 20 mins after his friend. Both said she consented (obviously) and she says she remembers nothing. It's a big call from the jury to give two different verdicts.

I wasn't really saying it appeared clear cut and I don't like the inconsistency.  I'd still be far more forgiving if he was a bit more contrite and his supporters hadn't caused my Facebook to be full of some pretty unpleasant stuff aimed at her. 

As I say I can see why people argue against rape, not that I support them, but what he did appears pretty scummy whatever you choose to label it as.  I don't really get why an innocent fella doesn't just walk out the door he came in by and can see why they might swing one way with him and not the other.  The judge who heard the appeal didn't see an inconsistency and he has seen all the evidence too.

[ripple11]

Thanks for that extra evidence Doobs, some of it was on the supporters website and they also mention the fact that she drunk much more than she normally would. I mentioned where I got that info from to indicate that I recognize it could be biased, a lot of their side I felt was written in a biased manner.

I am not saying I think he's innocent, or vice versa. And I do feel that in a jury system, a lot more guilty people get off, so the evidence must have been strong.

Interestingly so much of that evidence also applies to his friend who was found not guilty. Evans had sexual contact with her about 20 mins after his friend. Both said she consented (obviously) and she says she remembers nothing. It's a big call from the jury to give two different verdicts.

I wasn't really saying it appeared clear cut and I don't like the inconsistency.  I'd still be far more forgiving if he was a bit more contrite and his supporters hadn't caused my Facebook to be full of some pretty unpleasant stuff aimed at her. 

As I say I can see why people argue against rape, not that I support them, but what he did appears pretty scummy whatever you choose to label it as.  I don't really get why an innocent fella doesn't just walk out the door he came in by and can see why they might swing one way with him and not the other.  The judge who heard the appeal didn't see an inconsistency and he has seen all the evidence too.

Yes agreed...pretty scummy whatever happened.