Ched Evans

[bobby1]

As I said previously I don't have a problem with him working. I wouldn't personally wish to employ a rapist. Would anyone? Why would you.
Whether he's guilty of rape or not, and a jury found him so, his behavior then and that of his supporters since was at best disgusting.Peoples sympathy should be with the girl. She's the real victim not him.

What would your (or others peoples) view be if he appeals and it is over-turned?

This is where it is most uncomfortable for me because even if the appeal overturns the conviction it in no way means the girl was lying/claiming something  happened that was untrue. There was either a rape, sex between 3 people that consented or Evans might have walked into the room, the girl could have been passed out on the bed and he took advantage of her when she was not in a fit enough state to say yes or no. If the third option was true then she wouldn't remember it and he is guilty, but if she consented and then didn't remember the day after then is anyone guilty of anything?

It looks a really fine line and forgetting for a moment he is a footballer that might be pretty well known if it was a brother or other relative would most people have a lot of questions about the conviction?

[samurai]

Exactly the same. I still wouldn't want to employ a rapist? Would you?
I'd still think he and his friends behaved abysmally at the time and I'd still think his supporters have behaved appallingly in the interim. Surely this at least goes without saying?

[The Camel]

If this guy was a Sheff Weds player then Blades fans would be unanimous in their opposition to him playing again.

Anyone who looks on this case in partisan terms is mindboggingly narrow minded.

wow, I'm wondering of that is directed at me or not but I don't really care if he plays for my team ever again but I do strongly believe he should be allowed to go back to work wherever he is offered a job, just like other people that commit crimes do when they have served their time.

As for 'minboggling narrow minded' many people think this is a borderline case. I have expressed points to both side of the discussion and said I think it more likely he is guilty of being a rapist than he isn't. You have steadfastly said he is guilty, what he did was scummy at best and that a man that thinks he is innocent and fighting to clear his name should say sorry ( how will saying sorry change that he is a rapist if the appeal fails anyway), how did you define 'mindbogglingly narrow minded' here?

There are supporters of Sheff Weds and all other football clubs saying things favourable with regard to Evans sentence and if he should be allowed back to work, there will be ones that think he should never be let out and tough shit if he loses his career. There are Sheff Utd fans that think he should never be allowed to play for the club again but some think he should. Are all those that don't have the same opinion as you mindblowingly narrow mined even tho you have only expressed one opinion and are dismissing all the others as being wrong?

Absolutely not directed at you Phil, I can you see you are struggling to decide whether it is right or wrong for him to return. Which is entirely understandable.

Just seems that I have quite a few Sheff Utd fans as friends on Facebook. And some of their opinions are frankly unbelieveable.

ok thanks. I haven't seen what's happening on Facebook and it is absolutely disgraceful that the girl has been harassed but almost to a man the Blades fans I have spoken to are very uncomfortable that he might return. Most of them do think he should be allowed to play again and are again very uncomfortable that they know it might be a case of 'well if we don't take him someone will so we might as well take him'

What they do agree about tho is as this doesn't seem to be a very clear cut case( I know he was convicted so was seen as clear cut by people that know a lot more than we do about this) but there doesn't seem to be a lot of overwhelmingly rock solid evidence to convict that could/would appear in undoubted rape cases. The tricky part being that sex had already taken place with the other guy so some signs of forced sex would not show if he had raped her.

Having thought about it I do think it would be much wiser to wait until the appeal is heard because one of the points I think we are on polar opposite sides of is that he could actually have served a sentence for a crime he shouldn't have been convicted of, your side seems more that he was convicted so he has to be guilty.

The way forward for Evans is to make a statement like this:

"I honestly believed I was innocent of this crime. But after due contemplation and advice from legal professionals I was wrong. I took advantage of a vunerable woman when I shouldn't have.

"It is not acceptable for a man to behave in this way.

"While I am am extremely thankful for the support of my feiends and family, some of the comments they have made are misplaced. The woman in question was a victim and should not have been harrassed in any way.

"The time has come to close this chapter and let the victim try to rebuild her life in peace.

"I'm sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused and I'm committed to help charities aiding victims of rape in the future. I will be happy to appear on any forums or events which might halp these valuable causes"

Simple.

[bobby1]

Exactly the same. I still wouldn't want to employ a rapist? Would you?
I'd still think he and his friends behaved abysmally at the time and I'd still think his supporters have behaved appallingly in the interim. Surely this at least goes without saying?

Absolutely mate, I fully understand that and I wasn't fully aware that the girl has been getting abuse, that is disgusting.

[Kmac84]

As I said previously I don't have a problem with him working. I wouldn't personally wish to employ a rapist. Would anyone? Why would you.
Whether he's guilty of rape or not, and a jury found him so, his behavior then and that of his supporters since was at best disgusting.Peoples sympathy should be with the girl. She's the real victim not him.

He can't be held accountable for his supporters. 

I don't know much about the case but if I had a friend/relaive who was accused of such a crime and they told be an convinced me of their innocence regardless of what a jury thought I don't know what lengths I would go to to prove their innocence. 

[Kmac84]

Camel you normally come across as quite a sensible chap but that last post is bullshit. 

I recall a post you made not so long ago about an incident when you were portrayed as a dirty old man, do you think you should have apologised for that?

If I was Chad Evans hell would freeze over before I showed any sort of remorse if I knew I was innocent.  Lets face it only 3 people actually know the truth. 

[Archer]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

[The Camel]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

Do you you think everyone who drinks and drives should go to prison?

Because anyone who does that is capable of killing 2 children just the way he did.

[Archer]

Camel you normally come across as quite a sensible chap but that last post is bullshit. 

I recall a post you made not so long ago about an incident when you were portrayed as a dirty old man, do you think you should have apologised for that?

If I was Chad Evans hell would freeze over before I showed any sort of remorse if I knew I was innocent.  Lets face it only 3 people actually know the truth. 

Agree with your point about not showing remorse if I knew I was innocent.

However only 2 people maximum know the truth - as I understand it the "victim" has no memory of what happened and there was no complaint of rape, no forensic evidence and no injury.

[DungBeetle]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.

Huge difference.

So footballers that are 100% criminals have been rehabilitated after serving their sentence when their crime involved killing people.  It is something that everyone convicted of a crime can do if they are sound of mind so why is the Evans incident different Keith?

What difference did it make that he apologised after serving his time for a crime he was 100% guilty of committing?

You seem to have forgiven him for killing people but you are annoyed Ched Evans hasn't said sorry when he is still in the process of appeal?

McCormack killed those children by accident.

It was his fault for sure and he was stupid and negligent but it was an accident.

To my mind there is no way someone who accidentally killed someone (no matter how tragic it is) should be treated as harshly as a rapist.

I would bet a lot of money McCormack will never drink and drive again in his life. if he does, he deserves to go to prison for a very very long time.

You can't rape someone by accident.

If Evans still maintains he is innocent he has not been rehabiltated.

Confronted with the same set of circumstances he is likely to do the same thing again because he doesn't think what he did was wrong. (Well, he wouldn't obv, because he has seen what happens when he does that. But if there was no chance of getting caught he is capable of doing it again).

Being devils advocate is it not possible Evans thought he was engaging In consensual sex at the time?  

[arbboy]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

Do you you think everyone who drinks and drives should go to prison?

Because anyone who does that is capable of killing 2 children just the way he did.

Anyone who does 40 in a 30 zone is also capable of killing 2 children.  Do they go to jail as well?  

[ripple11]

Camel you normally come across as quite a sensible chap but that last post is bullshit. 

I recall a post you made not so long ago about an incident when you were portrayed as a dirty old man, do you think you should have apologised for that?

If I was Chad Evans hell would freeze over before I showed any sort of remorse if I knew I was innocent.  Lets face it only 3 people actually know the truth. 

3 and a half.....the night porter was listen at the door for some of it.

[DungBeetle]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

Do you you think everyone who drinks and drives should go to prison?

Because anyone who does that is capable of killing 2 children just the way he did.

Anyone who does 40 in a 30 zone is also capable of killing 2 children.  Do they go to jail as well?  

Company pollutes a river due to negligence. Company kills 16000 people at Bhopal due to negligence. Same punishment?

[The Camel]

Luke McCormick (sp?) is captain of Plymouth - I peronally find that more repellant that Evans, but again he's served his sentence so it's up to Plymouth.

McCormack killed those children by accident.

The accident was caused by his negligence, stupidity and downright disregard for the drink/driving laws.

But it was still an accident when all is said and done.

Ched Evans did not rape this girl by accident.



I also think McCormack's crime was more abhorrent than the Evans "rape". Although not directly connected it is interesting that was reflected in the longer sentence he received.

Huge difference.

Do you you think everyone who drinks and drives should go to prison?

Because anyone who does that is capable of killing 2 children just the way he did.

Anyone who does 40 in a 30 zone is also capable of killing 2 children.  Do they go to jail as well?  

Someone killing 2 kids driving at 40 mph in 30 zone won't go to prison.

Why is Luke McCormack going to prison?

If it is punishment he should get the same sentence as any drunk driver.

If it is rehabilitation it is pointless. He will never drink drive again and could not be sorrier for his actions.

The only justification is deterrent. Which would be even greater if everyone caught drink/driving goes to nick for a month. Would almost eliminate drink driving at a stroke.

[samurai]

5 1/2. His charming associate and brother were tying to film it...