PLO - thoughts on pre?

[GreekStein]

PokerStars Zoom Hand #123916622530:  Omaha Pot Limit ($2.50/$5.00) - 2014/10/26 4:59:22 ET
Table 'Humason' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: limbfromlimb ($1158.17 in chips)
Seat 2: TheUnsullied ($715.37 in chips)
Seat 3: phenomenalpn ($279.58 in chips)
Seat 4: charlie580 ($1142.52 in chips)
Seat 5: TonyKendall ($602.41 in chips)
Seat 6: LLCoolJ23 ($489.56 in chips)
TheUnsullied: posts small blind $2.50
phenomenalpn: posts big blind $5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TonyKendall [ ]
charlie580: raises $12.50 to $17.50
TonyKendall: calls $17.50
LLCoolJ23: raises $60 to $77.50
limbfromlimb: calls $77.50
TheUnsullied: folds
phenomenalpn: calls $72.50
charlie580: calls $60
TonyKendall:

We are readless here on opponents and not using a HUD. Who folds to the initial open? Who calls or 3-bets the open? Who calls the open but folds to the 3-bet?

I think there's merit to a few different options here - curious to hear people's thoughts on whatever they think so far.

[SuuPRlim]

Obviously you know as well as anyone I'm a huge punter for dbl paired hands so bear that in mind anyone reading this.

I think 3betting preflop is slightly better than calling, given how bowl your pairs are, obv if you have JJ66 then it's a lot different hand as going 3/4 way is much more appealing, obviously 120bb deep you're v likely going to get your stack in if you flop a set but you have to be a little more careful how you do it with 5522 over a different set. When 3betting an UTG open though off not too deep stacks its always way better to have an ace in your hand ofc, it's really not a grey spot to be 4bet, I'm always calling he 4b personally but I really don't think it's that great (folding not too hot either btw)

As its vs a UTG open I think the other options, between folding and calling are very close, I'm sure plenty of ppl will say folding s th best option of the three, although I personally would never fold I would either 3 bet or call depending on my read on the opener and my mood lol. Once the action goes like this I think you have no option but to call, back-raising this hand would be truly awful given how strong the 3bettor looks and I think folding at this point would be really bad, stacks are now very good for flopping a set :-)

It's defo a much nicer spot now than it could have been with different action but its certainly one of those spots where whatever you do with this hand is gonna be kinda marginal - hence why I lie to take the aggro option and try force your options a bit.

[GreekStein]

Obviously you know as well as anyone I'm a huge punter for dbl paired hands so bear that in mind anyone reading this.

I'm the same Dave. Show me a double paired hand and I get very excited.

I think the best play here is to fold pre to the initial open.

[tikay]

Yes, fold pre. I'd have to be very bored to play it.

My weakness (well, one of them, in before Conky) is having a Suited Ace in my hand. Can't resist getting involved with those. 

[Oxford_HRV]

think we all love a dbl pair hand!
The thing with this spot though is being utg+1, we have to expect when calling we will be going multi way and this is really a hand I'd only like playing HU so we will be in a tough spot post flop, if we are hitting a set is going to be bottom set, an that's not pretty nice vs 3 others. Plus we can only flop one end of a nut straight.
I wouldnt play this hand from this position, I would fold pre. I think bottom of my range here to call-call pre would be 8866

[GreekStein]

Luckily this screen name runs good and 2 guys managed to make worse plays than me.

PokerStars Zoom Hand #123916622530:  Omaha Pot Limit ($2.50/$5.00) - 2014/10/26 4:59:22 ET
Table 'Humason' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: limbfromlimb ($1158.17 in chips)
Seat 2: TheUnsullied ($715.37 in chips)
Seat 3: phenomenalpn ($279.58 in chips)
Seat 4: charlie580 ($1142.52 in chips)
Seat 5: TonyKendall ($602.41 in chips)
Seat 6: LLCoolJ23 ($489.56 in chips)
TheUnsullied: posts small blind $2.50
phenomenalpn: posts big blind $5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TonyKendall [ ]
charlie580: raises $12.50 to $17.50
TonyKendall: calls $17.50
LLCoolJ23: raises $60 to $77.50
limbfromlimb: calls $77.50
TheUnsullied: folds
phenomenalpn: calls $72.50
charlie580: calls $60
TonyKendall: calls $60
*** FLOP *** [ ]
phenomenalpn: checks
charlie580: checks
TonyKendall: bets $387.20
LLCoolJ23: raises $24.86 to $412.06 and is all-in
limbfromlimb: raises $668.61 to $1080.67 and is all-in
phenomenalpn: folds
charlie580: folds
TonyKendall: calls $137.71 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($555.76) returned to limbfromlimb
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TonyKendall: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Fives)
limbfromlimb: shows [ ] (two pair, Tens and Threes)
TonyKendall collected $225.70 from side pot
LLCoolJ23: shows [ ] (high card Ace)
TonyKendall collected $1623.38 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1851.88 Main pot $1623.38. Side pot $225.70. | Rake $2.80
Board [ ]
Seat 1: limbfromlimb (button) showed [ ] and lost with two pair, Tens and Threes
Seat 2: TheUnsullied (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: phenomenalpn (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: charlie580 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: TonyKendall showed [ ] and won ($1849.08) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 6: LLCoolJ23 showed [ ] and lost with high card Ace

[booder]

Blessed.

[Kmac84]

Folding >> calling << 3bet

But no wonder Tony Kendall gets his mug on the telly when he runs like that.

[DMorgan]

I'd fold to the initial open but call the squeeze as played

I think that having 5522 here is better than having a hand like TT99 which I would actually fold to the squeeze in this spot since your opponents ranges are likely to be rundown heavy and thus include lots of , and your straight outs

[SuuPRlim]

3betting just really depends on the player who is opening, a lot of guys when they pot from UTG just have AA nearly always.

Loads of good reasons to 3bet here imo. The other reason is you will often get meh KK and QQ hands to fold.

the point you;ve made about having a high chance of having your outs blocked with 99TT is spot on Dan but I certainly don't think it makes enough of a difference to fold that hand with this action, closing the action getting this price with this hand would be folly to fold imo. Hopefully though the opener wouldnt be a big nit so we could have 3bet him with that hand.

also, the QJ78 play is ambitous in this hand, imo.

[Oxford_HRV]

yeah ambitious alright.. what is llcoolj23 doing!?   

[Karabiner]

I thought all three hands were kind of ambitious tbh.

[DMorgan]

the point you;ve made about having a high chance of having your outs blocked with 99TT is spot on Dan but I certainly don't think it makes enough of a difference to fold that hand with this action

If you know that two of your set outs are dead its a clear fold? So facing 4 other hands that want to cold call a squeeze I don't think its a stretch to say that one of your set outs is going to be dead always and two are going to be dead a decent chunk of the time

[GreekStein]

the point you;ve made about having a high chance of having your outs blocked with 99TT is spot on Dan but I certainly don't think it makes enough of a difference to fold that hand with this action

If you know that two of your set outs are dead its a clear fold? So facing 4 other hands that want to cold call a squeeze I don't think its a stretch to say that one of your set outs is going to be dead always and two are going to be dead a decent chunk of the time

What the the best/highest 2 pair combos that you'd fold Dan? Where do you think the line is? JJ1010? qq1010? QQJJ? KK1010? etc

[rfgqqabc]

Getting our opponents in with 5% equity on the flop makes up for that Dan.