Are seating scripts destroying online poker cash games?

[DungBeetle]

What a complete joke online poker has become with these scripts and cartels.

[tikay]

From 2+2: Seating script in action at $3/6...table has no fish so the script rejects the table:

Ugh.

How utterly ridiculous.

What is happening to our lovely game?

[teamonkey]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

[tikay]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

[DMorgan]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

Seems a touch hyperbolic.

Even if you decided that every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing I would contest that you're still talking about a fraction of one percent of all of the online poker games running, even if you only include real play.

[rfgqqabc]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=44939003&postcount=273


Its a shame its been over 3 years since these issues became really highlighted and nothing got done that really fixed the problem in any way.

[TightEnd]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

Seems a touch hyperbolic.

Even if you decided that every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing I would contest that you're still talking about a fraction of one percent of all of the online poker games running, even if you only include real play.

but you are fighting a perception, that the recreational players increasingly think that "every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing"

thats very difficult to change, for an industry that constantly needs an influx of new players to replace those who fall by the wayside, whether pro or rec, for whatever reason

[tikay]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

Seems a touch hyperbolic.

Even if you decided that every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing I would contest that you're still talking about a fraction of one percent of all of the online poker games running, even if you only include real play.

Hyperbolic, Dan?

I don't think so.

There are very few sites where we can play safe in the knowledge that no third party software is permitted.

That may not bother others, or many, & I'm not going to get in an argument about the pros & cons, but personally, I prefer it like that.

So I think "little pockets" is reasonably true. I simply don't want to play where my opponents may well have all sorts of info on me or my play. That may seem a bit olf-fashioned - guilty as charged - but it's just my personal preference. 

I've always been a huge fan of 'Stars, & I think they have a magnificent site, but I really can't find the enthusiasm to ever play there again, having learned what I have recently. I'm quite sure they'll manage without me though.

I do understand your views, you are a Pro, & its different. I'm not. I suspect at least 90% of 'Stars players are not Pros, either.

We each enjoy different things in poker, I don't see the problem with that. There are around 130 (!) different types of third party software which are Compliant on 'Stars. I think that's a bad thing, generally speaking, thats all.

[tikay]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

Seems a touch hyperbolic.

Even if you decided that every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing I would contest that you're still talking about a fraction of one percent of all of the online poker games running, even if you only include real play.

but you are fighting a perception, that the recreational players increasingly think that "every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing"

thats very difficult to change, for an industry that constantly needs an influx of new players to replace those who fall by the wayside, whether pro or rec, for whatever reason

Correct, it's the perception, rather than, perhaps, the reality.

I know not ALL formats & Tables have these "edge sorting" sort of advantages, but the ones I am on MIGHT have. That's how the mind works.

It's fine, others can & will do what they want. It's not for me though. 

[arbboy]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

Seems a touch hyperbolic.

Even if you decided that every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing I would contest that you're still talking about a fraction of one percent of all of the online poker games running, even if you only include real play.

but you are fighting a perception, that the recreational players increasingly think that "every real money NL/PLO cash table 2/4+ was tainted due to seating scripts, every NL heads up SNG $60+ was tainted due to cartels, every high stakes NL 6max hyper was tainted due to people timing down and every 7 card stud table was tainted because you suspect that players are hole card sharing"

thats very difficult to change, for an industry that constantly needs an influx of new players to replace those who fall by the wayside, whether pro or rec, for whatever reason

Correct, it's the perception, rather than, perhaps, the reality.

I know not ALL formats & Tables have these "edge sorting" sort of advantages, but the ones I am on MIGHT have. That's how the mind works.

It's fine, others can & will do what they want. It's not for me though. 

I think this is the key difference between sports betting and poker and why one market is booming and the other is declining rapidly.  Tony Bloom has all the software/data/%'s etc etc which the rec's don't have (similar to all the poker software) to beat his punters on the exchanges/markets.  However, the perception isn't there to the recs that they are getting ironed out in an unfair way.

Perception really is a lot more important than the vast majority of poker pros realise.

[tikay]

Bugger, they've found the ultimate bit of software to expose me, I'm doomed.


http://www.tervola.com/DonkeyTracker/


Lol @ "Donkey Tracker"!

Guess they have to be careful who they market that to when, by definition, 90% of us are qualified donkeys.

[titaniumbean]

Come play some 7 card stud with me

you dont have to worry about seating scripts, just the huge team of chinese players sharing data and funds*


*allegedly, nothing has been proved, which makes me wonder why only 2 are allowed on a table at a time, and often the lobby has a large amount of tables with just 2 players sat, both of them chinese, and not playing until someone else sits


got to love this beautiful game!!!

Well as it happens, I still love poker, love it to bits, but there are many reasons for that, & I don't get involved in all these seating scripts, deliberate sit outs, "running down the clock" tricks, cartels or hows yer father.

It's a hobby to me, as it is to 90%+ of all Online players.

I sit & play small ball SNG's, talk to my friends, play on a site where all third partry software is banned, & I somehow manage to win around £100 per month. So there are little pockets where we can still play poker as it was intended, & for recreational purposes, & if we are good enough, we can win a bit, & enjoy ourselves without feeling some players are taking advantage of our limited abilities. I suppose it's inevitable that some try to find every little edge, & if it's legal, or Compliant on that particular site, fair enough.

Each to their own, eh?

lol

[rfgqqabc]

Not every recreational player is scared by computers. Some like seeing their own stats and trying to improve. Some like trying to emulate Moorman and play 12 tables getting ace 9 in. Some recreational players like to try and win. They think software will help. I'd be interested to be whether the majority of HEM/PT4 users are winning players. I'd hazard a guess at no.

Does the Racing Post ever run articles like "Is Bet Angel destroying the betfair exchange?" I don't really understand why Tikay in particular is happy for stars to grind the market out for everything it can but when professionals do it, it is all scummy. I don't take advantage of someone when my team beats them at 5 a side, my team is just better. We aren't taking advantage of your limited ability, we are having fun.


Why is it professional poker players are the ones left to be fighting this perception that the recreational players are getting screwed. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but it is the professional players fighting the corner of the recreational players against the sites. The currency charges introduced by stars should never ever effect any professional, but there was uproar. If only we could get the media in poker to forget their advertising revenue and actually talk about legitimate things for once instead of hiding away producing puff piece strategy and full page adverts. Has any journalist ever done anything to investigate the botting scandals? Superuser scandals? Anyone done anything to investigate the Malta LGA? Has anyone ever investigated the owners of these sites? Did anyone in the written media really pan UB/AP?

[teddybloat]

By journalist do we mean poker journalist?

Most publications are heavily subsidised by site advertisements. I doubt many of them are free to bite the hand that feeds.

Almost all stories of substance are uncovered by players and  broken on forums.

Most poker journalism resembles music and sports journaliam: puff opinion pieces, advertising by proxy, lame questions and listmanias. It has its place as infotainment but expecting that industry to break stories that rocks the establishment is like expecting the 3am girls to uncover the next watergate scandal.

[arbboy]

By journalist do we mean poker journalist?

Most publications are heavily subsidised by site advertisements. I doubt many of them are free to bite the hand that feeds.

Almost all stories of substance are uncovered by players and  broken on forums.

Most poker journalism resembles music and sports journaliam: puff opinion pieces, advertising by proxy, lame questions and listmanias. It has its place as infotainment but expecting that industry to break stories that rocks the establishment is like expecting the 3am girls to uncover the next watergate scandal.

Most poker magazines rely totally on advertising revenue don't they?  I have never bought a poker magazine in my life.  Is it actually possible to pay for them?  I thought they were just free in cardrooms.  I have never seen them in a newsagent etc for sale.