Flop Check

[shipitgood]

We have  in SB 20nl (£34.27)

Button raises 3 x, we 3 bet to £2.1 BB folds Button Calls (£4.6)

Flop

     

We check. Button bets £2.30, we call. (9.20)

Turn
 

Check Check

River

 

We bet £5 he calls.

Interested to hear peoples views on the flop check?

[Oxford_HRV]

pre is fine for me, but i dont quite follow the flop check, do you ever 3b pre and c/f this texture? if so with what kind of range?

can you give us an idea on why you took this line?

[shipitgood]

I'm not check folding this board a whole lot after 3 betting.

Think it's a bit of a mistake checking this flop with the board texture.

The reason I checked was to control the pot, and go for 2 streets of value from flop (if he bet) turn or river.

But the board's so draw heavy, prob best to bet flop, bet most turns. 

[Rexas]

Probably going to get shot down for this, but I really don't like this 3b pre, just not sure what you're trying to achieve with it. Also wouldn't check flop vs a random, can get flop and turn from a bunch of draws rather than just getting one street. Can have better hands to balance our check/folding and check/continuing ranges on this texture.

[Oxford_HRV]

Probably going to get shot down for this, but I really don't like this 3b pre

yh i see its not a HU hand bcus hero is SB then first to act post. i agree, dont like the 3b normally, depends on table and villain. if villain is opening 100% of buttons this should be fine for pure value right? i mean JTs flops a little too well imo

[Rexas]

Probably going to get shot down for this, but I really don't like this 3b pre

yh i see its not a HU hand bcus hero is SB then first to act post. i agree, dont like the 3b normally, depends on table and villain. if villain is opening 100% of buttons this should be fine for pure value right? i mean JTs flops a little too well imo

For me it would depend more on how the villain reacts to 3bs. If they are opening too wide, but playing well against 3bs and well post, I'd much prefer to 3b a hand where it's clearer what we are doing. If they fold to 3bs too much, we can happily 3b them with a Squirtle and a Bulbasaur, and if they call 3bs too much, I'd much rather start including KQ, KJ, QJ, AJ etc in our 3bing range (which aren't in mine as default). Basically I just don't think J10 ss is ever really strong enough for value but is way too good to be a bluff, and I don't think I'll ever buy into this idea of rarely/never flatting from the sb.

[muckthenuts]

Really need to post reads when you post a hand.

[KingPush]

JTs is top ~8% of hands so don't see why we wouldn't 3bet here, would guess shipit is not surprised I advocate a 3bet though. Would check flop with QQ, QJ and some straights with a heart. A lot of run outs are going to mean we aren't betting 3 here so a check is probably going to be needed at some point in the hand. Would prob bet, x/c, bet or x river, depending on what villain did on turn.

[Rexas]

JTs is top ~8% of hands so don't see why we wouldn't 3bet here, would guess shipit is not surprised I advocate a 3bet though. Would check flop with QQ, QJ and some straights with a heart. A lot of run outs are going to mean we aren't betting 3 here so a check is probably going to be needed at some point in the hand. Would prob bet, x/c, bet or x river, depending on what villain did on turn.

Wow, so you just 3b the top 8% of hands? This seems like you're throwing away equity and your board coverage must be pretty poor, either that or you're three betting way, way too much

[KingPush]

JTs is top ~8% of hands so don't see why we wouldn't 3bet here, would guess shipit is not surprised I advocate a 3bet though. Would check flop with QQ, QJ and some straights with a heart. A lot of run outs are going to mean we aren't betting 3 here so a check is probably going to be needed at some point in the hand. Would prob bet, x/c, bet or x river, depending on what villain did on turn.

Wow, so you just 3b the top 8% of hands? This seems like you're throwing away equity and your board coverage must be pretty poor, either that or you're three betting way, way too much

Didn't say that. I'm saying it's a good hand, I don't call from the SB, I'm definitely 3betting. I think only 3betting 8% versus a button open would be way too tight.

[Honeybadger]

3betting preflop seems pretty standard. Most players don't have a flatting range in the SB in this spot. Theoretically they probably should have, but it is not giving up too much at all to be solely 3bet or fold. It is a lot easier to balance one range rather than two, and besides the SB is a very difficult place to make money when flatting a BTN raise (you can be squeezed pre, your position is terrible postflop etc.). So it is perfectly reasonable to be 3bet or fold here. If the BB is a very weak (and passive) player then I would have a flatting range, to keep him in the pot. In fact, I might not have a 3betting range in that case. This would be an exploitative adjustment though.

Of course, if you are 3bet or fold then JTs should definitely be part of your 3betting range.

I'd bet this flop and use a two street strategy. Which means I would bet big on the flop and then jam the majority of turns. Keeps things nice and simple.

[Rexas]

I just kinda hate the idea of folding like 77 to a button raise. I hate the idea of 3bing it too :p

[shipitgood]

I'd bet this flop and use a two street strategy. Which means I would bet big on the flop and then jam the majority of turns. Keeps things nice and simple

Makes sense!

I wrote this hand down after I had played it to have a look at, I didn't like something about it.

Forgot all about it, till I plugged in the hand ID.

Pretty much straight away I disliked my check.

[Sulphur man]

Really need to post reads when you post a hand.

Something that seems to be lacking in a good number of posts.

Basically you want to describe play in terms of what they are doing, what they are thinking or you.
On a practical level it could be that people have an overreliance on a HUD and just a general failure to
take good notes. Maybe this stems from mass-multitabling and simply overlooking the significance of events.
This will handicap your ability to make good reads.

So much information is available even in a short time at the table. And to comment with any worth on a hand
the vast majority of the time some kind of read is simply imperative.

[Sulphur man]

Probably going to get shot down for this, but I really don't like this 3b pre, just not sure what you're trying to achieve with it. Also wouldn't check flop vs a random, can get flop and turn from a bunch of draws rather than just getting one street. Can have better hands to balance our check/folding and check/continuing ranges on this texture.

Fully agree pre flop.