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Author Topic: Live hand £1/£2  (Read 4729 times)
Omm
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« on: November 04, 2014, 10:36:12 AM »

First post in PHA, want to get opinions on best way of playing this hand.

I've been at the table for 4 hours, playing quite solid, most hands I've won at showdown so my cards have been seen but. Have always had it so increased my stack from £400 to £700.

2 villains have been at the table 1 hour, are both directly to my left, one hand of note with villain 1 which I will explain later other than that my image is probably quite solid although I do have history with both villains where both are ultra aggressive and I have had some battles with them in the past.

I never ever normally straddle however the table is quite fun with everybody knowing each other and I've announced I'm going home soon. Guy to my right talks me into straddling.

Villan 1 has roughly the same stack Villan 2 has about £240

Villan 1 utg +1 limps to £4

Villan 2 limps to £4

BTN, SB and BB all limp. Pot £24 (inc mine)

I look down at  and raised a further £20

Just the 2 villains and BB call. Pot £104

Flop 

I bet £70

Villain 1 tanks for about 4 mins, dealer says, you realise it's on you, he apologises and says he didn't and 30secs later calls, villain 2 calls and BB folds.

Pot £314

Turn 

I Check, villain 1 checks quickly (2secs), villain 2 checks.

River  Two Diamonds

I check, villain 1 bets £270, villain 2 folds quickly. What should I do now? What should I have done throughout the hand?

The hand earlier that was with villain 1 and one other was a Lowish rainbow flop, I had  , called a bet on flop, board paired on turn, checked through, villain 1 puts in a 3/4 pot bet on river, both me and other call. Villain 1 shows trips me and other had an over pair, other said he had Queens.

Let me know if I've missed any info that may be relevant, all are best to my memory. Thanks.
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shipitgood
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 12:05:40 PM »

Bet about 106 otr / fold to a raise
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edgascoigne
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2014, 12:19:48 PM »

You make the hand very difficult for yourself when you bump the straddle, especially by the amount that you that you did. To my mind there's no real merit in raising pre at all....if you were to do so the sticking twenty on top isn't really going to chase out the "crumb bums and shoe clerks" in this situation. All that ends up happening is you bloat the pot oop with a hand that it's tough to flop really well with.

As played pre... I would continue the flop, but a little smaller than you did, say £55. The outcome will be the same, but the pot size a little more manageable.

We then go to the turn with £269 in there and about £620 back against the big stack. The shorter of the two players now has about £160 back.

Turn I think warrants another barrel. £105 plenty. Pray you don't get raised.

River, empty the clip with 40% pot. If you've found someone who will bluff jam at £1/2 then God bless him, otherwise if he raises he just has it.



Comfortably the best though is to not raise pre and manage the size of the pot.

Post reads as though he had similar?

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simonnatur
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 12:32:36 PM »

Only reason I can see for taking this line is to induce a bet on the river from worse, don't see how we can contemplate folding. If villain has pocket 8's / J 10 doesn't our hand right now look a lot like AK to him ?
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Omm
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 01:28:22 PM »

Ed what range would you play from a straddle to raise it? would you have folded the hand rather than call? My intention was to get a few out and maybe get heads up with one of them, in this game thought £20 would be enough in hindsight maybe £30 would not have even done it considering how the game was playing.

I def knew i was good on the flop and didnt expect both to call £70. When the board paired on the turn the memory of the other hand was fresh, the check was for pot control, i was very suspicious when Villain 1 checked so quick especially after his long delay on the flop. Pretty sure i was beating Villain 2. My intention on the river was to check call, the large nearly pot size bet made me tank for quite a while. I have seen this guy do this with complete air before and he knows this. I considered that pre flop he would be raising most pairs and picture combos, A suited combo's and probably limping with suited connectors and gapped suited connectors. As played i thought he was weighted towards  , , , , , , and other suit same combo's. I didnt put too much thought into him limping with  combo's.  I decided that if it was a value bet he would have bet smaller to give me room to Jam on him for him to call, The big bet made me lean towards him bluffing.

Was it better to bet fold on the river or check fold, would check calling be the worst of all three?

What i did to follow later.
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Rexas
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2014, 01:31:52 PM »

Hey there pal, welcome to the PHA Smiley

I agree with Ed to an extent, in that by bumping up the straddle by a small amount we haven't really achieved anything. We're not going to get many folds, so we're going to end up playing a bloated pot oop against multiple opponents with a hand that doesn't play great multiway. I do however prefer raising to checking (don't dislike it all that much though) so I'd be looking to make it more in the region of 30-35.

As played tbh I'd probably just barrel it off. If this is anything like the live games I used to play, noones folding a straight draw, noones folding a 10, noone should really ever have an overpair, might even get them to stick around with decent second pairs. More interested in how our hand plays against their range rather than any fancy stuff, if we've got a hand that's doing well against their range I just wanna stick more money in.
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shipitgood
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 01:52:43 PM »

Ed what range would you play from a straddle to raise it? would you have folded the hand rather than call? My intention was to get a few out and maybe get heads up with one of them, in this game thought £20 would be enough in hindsight maybe £30 would not have even done it considering how the game was playing.

I def knew i was good on the flop and didnt expect both to call £70. When the board paired on the turn the memory of the other hand was fresh, the check was for pot control, i was very suspicious when Villain 1 checked so quick especially after his long delay on the flop. Pretty sure i was beating Villain 2. My intention on the river was to check call, the large nearly pot size bet made me tank for quite a while. I have seen this guy do this with complete air before and he knows this. I considered that pre flop he would be raising most pairs and picture combos, A suited combo's and probably limping with suited connectors and gapped suited connectors. As played i thought he was weighted towards  , , , , , , and other suit same combo's. I didnt put too much thought into him limping with  combo's.  I decided that if it was a value bet he would have bet smaller to give me room to Jam on him for him to call, The big bet made me lean towards him bluffing.

Was it better to bet fold on the river or check fold, would check calling be the worst of all three?

What i did to follow later.

We have reads then that he bets big as a bluff, where as with his trips he bets slightly smaller, although there isn't a massive diff in the bet sizing.

As played, with our reads, probably a call.

On the river, it's best to bet fold. If we put in a 1/3rd pot size value bet we are still getting called by stuff we beat, 99, 10x.

As some one else said if they raise, we can easily fold as it's unlikely they are bluffing in this spot.

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shipitgood
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 01:54:30 PM »

And welcome to PHA! Are you playing UKOPS?
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Omm
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 01:59:20 PM »

And welcome to PHA! Are you playing UKOPS?

Thanks for the welcome guys, im actually trying a few sats today. Will def play Sunday Main and may play a few during the week. Prefer to go and play live cash as it happens.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2014, 02:21:23 PM »

Take anything from me with a pinch of salt as it's about 9mths since I peeled a card by the way!!

When I was playing live cash I would straddle for, essentially, the reasons below:

1. Ingratiates you to the more punty players. I cannot express how important this is.
2. Creation of a precedent where appropriate. Whilst a straddle reduces SPR, if you can play yours better than others play theirs, and they do indeed follow suit and post, you hugely increase your expectation when IP if they peel to wide (which they will).
3. When you pick up a premium NO-ONE believes you, irrespective of what they've seen you show in that spot in the past.
4. Image. So important, so cheap to acquire.

In terms of a raising range, obviously it depends on a number of factors, but essentially if I'm raising I will be raising big, and there will be a bomb on the flop that shows stacks under threat through the hand.

My raising range as such is probably narrower than most, and it's basically JJ+, AQo+. Then the bombs are coming out through the hand.

Now, if there's a raise preflop, then we get into interesting options pre...
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Omm
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 03:06:52 PM »

Boom, just sat'd into UKOPS 3 main!!

Anyway the hand

After tanking for 5 mins i decided that he was bluffing more often than Value betting for that amount. He turned over  three diamonds (not a bad read Ed). Is calling a £70 raise on the flop with bottom pair a long term winning move or is it ok to call then evaluate the turn?

Thanks for your help guys, much appreciated.
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KingPush
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 03:08:34 PM »

Agree with not raising pre. As played preflop I think betting three streets is probably the best option. Never folding river after checking turn and river. He should definitely be folding pre or on the flop, don't worry about making the call though, definitely the right play in the long run.
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Rexas
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 03:30:08 PM »

I actually think the fact that he called with this hand pre and on the flop is a fantastic justification for 3bing pre and betting all three streets :p
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MelissaChloe
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 04:04:58 PM »

Can you change your name to OmmNomNom please?

I just feel like this would be better.
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edgascoigne
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 05:06:03 PM »

Boom, just sat'd into UKOPS 3 main!!

Anyway the hand

After tanking for 5 mins i decided that he was bluffing more often than Value betting for that amount. He turned over  three diamonds (not a bad read Ed). Is calling a £70 raise on the flop with bottom pair a long term winning move or is it ok to call then evaluate the turn?

Thanks for your help guys, much appreciated.

He knows he's almost certainly no good when he peels the flop, but by my reckoning there's still over £600 in stacks when he does so. He has, as they say, floated you.

In his spot, I would also peel flop for the following reasons:

1. Your hand is looking increasingly nutted.
2. £70 to try to hit a gin turn card with £600 back in stacks.
3. Hand massively disguised if he does hit gin.
4. Lots of turns he picks up back doors on - 4's, 6's, diamonds.
5. Possibility you will check the turn as the pot escalates giving him a chance to realise back door equity for just one bet with large SPR.
6. Possibility you've missed with big cards and he gets cheap showdown.
7. POSITION - POSITION - POSITION

You've also announced you're going home soon, which, given you are winning a bit in the game, would make it more likely I decide to fcuk with you.

I actually think the fact that he called with this hand pre and on the flop is a fantastic justification for 3bing pre and betting all three streets :p

I respectfully disagree, but then that's the beauty of the game Smiley
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